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The Fulfilled Covenant Bible

asterisktom

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I feel sorry for folk who have no hope of a literal new Heaven and Earth.

P. S. The plural and singular of ouranos are virtually interchangeable in the NT.

Save your sorrow. I feel sorry for those who have no hope of a spiritual new Heaven and Earth - the blessings we have now. Although what awaits us after death will be even better, many Christian do not appreciate the blessing we have now.

Perhaps I should add that I am not judging salvation here, just showing that there are two sides to this.

As far as the plural and the singular are concerned: You are still looking at the trees, not the forest.
 

asterisktom

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Apples and oranges. My point was linguistic, not doctrinal. And you haven't answered my linguistic point, which shows that the author of the essay about stoixeion was ignorant of Greek.

I am not interested in points that are purely and solely linguistic. Not on this board. I would rather enjoy the fruits, either apples or oranges, than discourse on the merits on a mere painting of fruit.

I suspect that your assuming the author's being "ignorant of Greek" stems from his not being sufficiently appreciative of the extra-biblical definitions of stoicheia. I believe your understanding of this concept came from your background, not from dispassionate study of the biblical record.
 
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John of Japan

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I am not interested in points that are purely and solely linguistic. Not on this board. I would rather enjoy the fruits, either apples or oranges, than discourse on the merits on a mere painting of fruit.
Bible translation is all about linguistics. You are on the Bible translation forum. Got it?
 

John of Japan

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Okay, folks. All is clear now. I should have read further down the page on the website I gave. It said, "It is hoped that this collaborative effort, which is based on the World English Old Testament and the King James Clarified New Testament texts (both of which are in the public domain), has produced a valuable resource, free of futurist translation bias, to advance our Lord’s Kingdom."

Compare the FCB to the KJV in the NT and you get extremely close equivalence, often exactly the same verses, except that the FCB does not italicize the words as the KJV does. Also, noting the above phrase, "free of futurist translation bias," and you know that what I said about preterist presuppositions. So it's really not a new translation at all, just a re-working of the KJV according to preterist bias. :sleep:

Looking at the bios of the men on the website, none of them have training in the original languages, and they even seem to oppose such training. Mike's bio even says, "He has credited the absence of imposed and enforced indoctrination from seminaries and Bible Colleges, for allowing for independence in his studies, with a dependence upon the Holy Spirit’s ability to teach." Gary also shows no training in this area, saying in his "Spiritual Journey," "The Greek word is 'Dialegomai', where we get the English word dialogue from." This is committing what is called the root fallacy, in which the meaning of a word is thought to come from it's etymology rather than its contemporary usage. These men are claiming knowledge they don't have.

Again, here is a statement on the site: "The blatant omission of the Greek word mello (about to), which is an imminent time indicator, from the KJV 106 times. The NIV and NASB “only” omit mello about 85 times. Mello has now been re-inserted back into the Word of God, where it has always belonged." (Huh? So they are putting a Greek word into the English Bible?) The word menno is actually in the TR 107 times, translated "about to" six times. It is often translated "to come" in the KJV, a perfectly legitimate rendering. Therefore, the idea that it is omitted 106 times from the KJV is therefore errant nonsense. It is translated every single time, just not precisely like a preterist would like it to be.

In the testimonies, you will find close connections on the website to Charismatic ministries and churches, and also a large portion of Gary DeMar's Christian Reconstructionism heresy (not Baptistic in the slightest). Gary's testimony ends with a typical Charismatic statement, "He even put the icing on the cake, to confirm His word personally to me, by confirming it with signs and wonders following!" Gary also talks about receiving many prophecies in his "Spiritual Journey."

I'm sure they mean well, but none of these men are qualified or equipped to revise the Word of God. Don't waste your money on this "translation."
 

John of Japan

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Fair enough. No more comments on this thread. If you want it to be all about linguistics then I will just go to the other forums.
But the men on the FCB website make numerous (albeit mistaken) references to NT Greek. Were they then wrong to do so, wrong to try to use linguistics?
 

John of Japan

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I suspect that your assuming the author's being "ignorant of Greek" stems from his not being sufficiently appreciative of the extra-biblical definitions of stoicheia. I believe your understanding of this concept came from your background, not from dispassionate study of the biblical record.
My background includes extensive training and experience in NT Greek, something I recommend to all preterists. However, as I recall you once thought I depended too much on the Greek. Funny thing to think, seeing it is the original language of the NT as you well know. :type:

Do you then believe the English translation to have more authority than the originals?
 

thomas15

Well-Known Member
100 years ago, at a time when the sale of 1 or 2 million copies of a book represented a significant percent of the english speaking book buying population, the Scofield Refrence Bible achieved that distinction. While not perfect, this edition had a tremendous impact and in no small way helped to facilitate the indepth study of the Bible by the common man. True, popularity doesn't equal correctness but consider the following:

.....History of an Error
Wrong dates can lead to Bad Theology

......
They don't usually. But in the case of Archbishop William Ussher and his dates that did happen......

Let me know when the preterist study bible reaches sales of 10% of the 1 million copies sold in the first few years after the Scofield hit the stores.

With respect to dates, it is interesting to observe how preterists use history to make their case. One can only speculate how the public would react if the dreams of preterist were to come true and their movement were to take off! Foes of dispensationalism love to find fault with the Scofield Bible published in 1917, but how does that make their (preterist) theology correct? It doesn't of course.

Image what secular historians and even non-preterists Christians would say if the historical "proof" preterists give to bolster their theology were to receive widespread evaluation. In my opinion, it would make the pre-mil, pre-trib dispensationalists (of which I'm one) look down right sane in the eyes of the non-believing world.

from Wikipedia:

The 1917 Scofield Reference Bible is now in the public domain, continues to be published, and is "consistently the best selling edition" in the United Kingdom and Ireland.In 1967, Oxford University Press published a revision of the Scofield Bible with a slightly modernized KJV text and a muting of some of the tenets of Scofield's theology. The Press continues to issue editions under the title Oxford Scofield Study Bible, and there are translations into French, German, Spanish, and Portuguese. For instance, the French edition published by the Geneva Bible Society is printed with a revised version of the Louis Segond translation that includes additional notes by a Francophone committee.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scofield_Reference_Bible
 

thomas15

Well-Known Member
.....Looking at the bios of the men on the website, none of them have training in the original languages, and they even seem to oppose such training. Mike's bio even says, "He has credited the absence of imposed and enforced indoctrination from seminaries and Bible Colleges, for allowing for independence in his studies, with a dependence upon the Holy Spirit’s ability to teach." Gary also shows no training in this area, saying in his "Spiritual Journey," "The Greek word is 'Dialegomai', where we get the English word dialogue from." This is committing what is called the root fallacy, in which the meaning of a word is thought to come from it's etymology rather than its contemporary usage. These men are claiming knowledge they don't have.

That can't be so, the evangelical brain trust belongs totally to the reformed theologians. According to them, dispensational theology is strictly a popular movement.

A visit to the website of this publication is most informative. Take a look at the photographs at the picture and video tab and see if they don't remind you of another popular movement just past. And yet the dispensationalist uses a sensationalist approach to theology. Preterism in general seems to have skipped over Titus 2:11-13. I guess it does not apply to them.

Notice also the lack of specific and technical information of the physical hard copy bible being offered for sale.
 

Jerome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Found this article by the guy publishing this [obviously through a vanity press] in the latest issue of some newsletter called "Fulfilled!":

Apparently there was a "my Preterist Bible needs a new name" contest:laugh:

Preterist Bible (not the final title) is in the latter stages of production, and portions are currently being posted for review, as well as associated commentaries. Voting on the leading title suggestions have narrowed the selections to the following two titles:
1) The New Covenant Kingdom Translation
2) The Fulfilled Covenant Bible
E-mail your vote to PBP500 @ cox.net before October 20th.

. . . . .

The Bible will also become available in print form, Lord willing, once 250 orders are placed at PBP500 @ cox.net. So e-mail in your name, mailing address with zip code, telephone number, and how many copies
you wish to purchase. Five-hundred is the required number to financially break even on the Preterist Bible Project. Once we reach half that number, we will step out in faith and go to print. We are not seeking to make
any profit whatsoever, but doing this project as unto the Lord. We will update the number of orders we have received every few months (current orders placed as of August 23, 2012 are 41). We are selling the Bibles
at cost ($35.00 guestimate [sic]). Consider asking your pastor to purchase Bibles for the entire congregation.

. . . . .

Some examples of futurist translation bias being addressed in this project include the following:
• The blatant omission from the KJV of 106 occurrences of the Greek word mello (about to), which is an imminent time indicator. The NIV and NASB omit mello “only” about 85 times.
Mello has now been re-inserted back into the Word of God, where it has always belonged.

• The Greek word stoicheion is used seven times in the New Testament. It is usually translated elements, as in 2 Peter. In reality, this word is not talking about physical materials, but principles or ideas (cf. Gal 4:3). In 2 Peter, stoicheion is describing the principles of the Old Covenant being destroyed in a fiery judgment, and not a future nuclear holocaust.

• The Greek word ge can mean land or earth. The superior translation, particularly in the book of Revelation, is often land. For example, Revelation 1:7 more accurrately [sic] reads tribes of the land, not nations of the earth.

• The Book of Revelation, written prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in
AD 70 (Rev 11:1-2 and 17:10), describes events that were coming primarily
upon the land of Israel in the first century—not subsequent generations.

• Revelation 9:16 refers to a two million man army from China—or does it? In the Greek it is actually myriads upon myriads. Could the number just as readily be translated as 20,000?

• In some versions of the KJV Matthew 24:3 reads end of the world? The Greek is actually end of the age? The Greek words aion (age) and kosmos (world) are not synonymous.

• Oikoumene is poorly translated as whole world. This Greek word is actually almost always referring to the Roman Empire. Luke 2:1 is one example of fifteen. In addition to the Bible, which clearly and repeatedly illustrates oikoumene as the Roman Empire, Josephus’ The War of the Jews and other first-century and later writings further illuminate the accurate meaning of the Greek word oikoumene as the Roman Empire.

In the Preterist Bible, the futurist translation bias has been removed. It makes reading the Scriptures so much clearer. The fog of futurist translation bias has been thoroughly dissipated, and the distorting carnival mirrors replaced. Now we can see more clearly!


Respectfully,
Michael E. Day
 

John of Japan

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I object to this Michael Day on two levels. First of all, if he really had faith that he was doing the right thing, he wouldn't wait until he had 500 orders. If you're sure, you go ahead and step out by faith. He says he will "step out on faith" once he receives 500 orders and breaks even. Breaking even is not faith.

Secondly, he pretends a knowledge of Greek he doesn't have. He makes these statements like he was a Greek scholar, but several are so obviously wrong it is plain he doesn't even have a basic Greek grammar or lexicon--probably nothing but Strong's in some basic software.

I just noticed today that asterisktom has fled this forum and re-started this on the Baptist Theology and Bible Study thread, and there mentions the mello (mellw) issue there. It will be a good study for me, and hopefully, enlightening for others.
 

thomas15

Well-Known Member
....

I just noticed today that asterisktom has fled this forum and re-started this on the Baptist Theology and Bible Study thread, and there mentions the mello (mellw) issue there. It will be a good study for me, and hopefully, enlightening for others.

Not before putting us all on his iggy list.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I object to this Michael Day on two levels. First of all, if he really had faith that he was doing the right thing, he wouldn't wait until he had 500 orders. If you're sure, you go ahead and step out by faith. He says he will "step out on faith" once he receives 500 orders and breaks even. Breaking even is not faith.

Secondly, he pretends a knowledge of Greek he doesn't have. He makes these statements like he was a Greek scholar, but several are so obviously wrong it is plain he doesn't even have a basic Greek grammar or lexicon--probably nothing but Strong's in some basic software.

I just noticed today that asterisktom has fled this forum and re-started this on the Baptist Theology and Bible Study thread, and there mentions the mello (mellw) issue there. It will be a good study for me, and hopefully, enlightening for others.

By just being a hyper/full pretierist, and by interpreting how to translate thru those lenses invalidate suppossed "Greek expertise?"

isn't it amazing that he has seen insights in the greek that scholars on Esv/Nasb/Niv were unable to see?
 

John of Japan

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By just being a hyper/full pretierist, and by interpreting how to translate thru those lenses invalidate suppossed "Greek expertise?"

isn't it amazing that he has seen insights in the greek that scholars on Esv/Nasb/Niv were unable to see?
Yeah, really! :laugh:
 
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