As far as the religion of Jesus Christ is concerned, agape defined: Matthew 7:12.
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The Function of the Law in the New Covenant..pt2
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As far as the religion of Jesus Christ is concerned, agape defined: Matthew 7:12.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Dec·a·logue
ˈdekəˌlôɡ,ˈdekəˌläɡ/
noun
- the Ten Commandments.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
When you first presented this list, I simply took you at your word. This time, I started looking some of these verses up ...
[Gen 17:1 KJV] 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Where exactly does God tell Abram to worship no other gods in that verse? Is it something in the Hebrew?
OK, this one is closer. It actually seems like a better fit for the First Commandment ... but that is just straining gnats.
Again, where does this command not to take the name of the LORD in vain?
[Exo 16:22-26 NASB] 22 Now on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. When all the leaders of the congregation came and told Moses, 23 then he said to them, "This is what the LORD meant: Tomorrow is a sabbath observance, a holy sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning." 24 So they put it aside until morning, as Moses had ordered, and it did not become foul nor was there any worm in it. 25 Moses said, "Eat it today, for today is a sabbath to the LORD; today you will not find it in the field. 26 "Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the sabbath, there will be none."
Genesis 2 clearly has GOD blessing the Sabbath, but there is no real command to keep it. Exodus 16 clearly has a command to rest on the sabbath, but since Moses is already leading the people, one could argue that this was a proto-covenant rule to train them for what was coming. (just like marching by tribe was preparation for living in tribal territories).
I don't have time to go through the rest, but so far an examination of your claim that the rules of the 10 commandments were presented earlier than Moses and the Covenant is only a "sort of true".
[Gen 17:1 NASB] 1 Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; Walk before Me, and be blameless.
[Gen 17:1 KJV] 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Where exactly does God tell Abram to worship no other gods in that verse? Is it something in the Hebrew?
[Gen 35:1-4 NASB] 1 Then God said to Jacob, "Arise, go up to Bethel and live there, and make an altar there to God, who appeared to you when you fled from your brother Esau." 2 So Jacob said to his household and to all who were with him, "Put away the foreign gods which are among you, and purify yourselves and change your garments; 3 and let us arise and go up to Bethel, and I will make an altar there to God, who answered me in the day of my distress and has been with me wherever I have gone." 4 So they gave to Jacob all the foreign gods which they had and the rings which were in their ears, and Jacob hid them under the oak which was near Shechem.
OK, this one is closer. It actually seems like a better fit for the First Commandment ... but that is just straining gnats.
[Exo 5:2 NASB] 2 But Pharaoh said, "Who is the LORD that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I do not know the LORD, and besides, I will not let Israel go."
Again, where does this command not to take the name of the LORD in vain?
[Gen 2:1-3 NASB] 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
[Exo 16:22-26 NASB] 22 Now on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. When all the leaders of the congregation came and told Moses, 23 then he said to them, "This is what the LORD meant: Tomorrow is a sabbath observance, a holy sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning." 24 So they put it aside until morning, as Moses had ordered, and it did not become foul nor was there any worm in it. 25 Moses said, "Eat it today, for today is a sabbath to the LORD; today you will not find it in the field. 26 "Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the sabbath, there will be none."
Genesis 2 clearly has GOD blessing the Sabbath, but there is no real command to keep it. Exodus 16 clearly has a command to rest on the sabbath, but since Moses is already leading the people, one could argue that this was a proto-covenant rule to train them for what was coming. (just like marching by tribe was preparation for living in tribal territories).
I don't have time to go through the rest, but so far an examination of your claim that the rules of the 10 commandments were presented earlier than Moses and the Covenant is only a "sort of true".
...yea, I don't think it's the slam dunk Martin imagines it to be...
But I agree, it's evident that from the very beginning the ancients had divine instruction. For example, how would they know to do this if they weren't instructed to do so?:
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto Jehovah.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And Jehovah had respect unto Abel and to his offering: Gen 4
This was no 'moral law' that was inherent in man. It had to be given the same way Adam received his command.
Thanks for reading my post. I really appreciate that. I get the impression that very often people don't actually read what others write.
From Genesis Vol. 1 by John D. Currid.
'God then impresses on Abram how the patriarch is to act before Him: a double imperative is used ('walk' and 'be blameless'). The idea of walking before God is language used in Mesopotamian texts to denote one's allegiance to a king. It is a figure of loyalty to royalty..........The Hebrew term [for 'blameless'] means 'complete' or 'whole' and, thus, may signify a command for unreserved and unqualified surrender to God. Abram is to be loyal to God with his entire being.'
It seems pretty clear to me that if Abraham is to be loyal to God with his entire being, he is not to put other gods before Yahweh.
They 'gave' Jacob their foreign gods which must mean that they were physical and therefore idols of some sort.
To take someone's name in vain is to use it slightingly or in a mocking way. This, beyond doubt, is what Pharaoh did. To 'know' in Hebrew bears the meaning of having intimacy with someone. He's effectively saying, "I don't care about Yahweh," and as a result, he and his nation pay a terrible penalty. 'Remember how the enemy has mocked You, O LORD; how foolish people have reviled Your name' (Psalm 74:18).
Read Exodus 20:11. The rationale for the commandment is God's reat after creation.
My task was to find the commandment before Exodus 19, and that I have done. 'One could argue' all sorts of things, including that the concept of a Sabbath rest was already well known to the Israelites. I only observe that Exodus 16 comes before Exodus 19
Some commentators see the concept of the Sabbath in Genesis 4:3 since 'in the process [or 'course'] of time' is literally 'at the end of days' and might refer to the Sabbath.
Well I hope that this post will be helpful to you.
The ten commandments ARE NOT the Old Covenant as you keep saying.They were in effect before the nation of israel existed.They did become incorporated into the Old Covenant...but they do not equal the OLD Covenant as you falsely suggest.
The ten commandments have not been done away....all are under them today as law keepers, or rebels.
Good posting Martin as you have been consistently solid on this.Thanks for reading my post. I really appreciate that. I get the impression that very often people don't actually read what others write.
From Genesis Vol. 1 by John D. Currid.
'God then impresses on Abram how the patriarch is to act before Him: a double imperative is used ('walk' and 'be blameless'). The idea of walking before God is language used in Mesopotamian texts to denote one's allegiance to a king. It is a figure of loyalty to royalty..........The Hebrew term [for 'blameless'] means 'complete' or 'whole' and, thus, may signify a command for unreserved and unqualified surrender to God. Abram is to be loyal to God with his entire being.'
It seems pretty clear to me that if Abraham is to be loyal to God with his entire being, he is not to put other gods before Yahweh.
They 'gave' Jacob their foreign gods which must mean that they were physical and therefore idols of some sort.
To take someone's name in vain is to use it slightingly or in a mocking way. This, beyond doubt, is what Pharaoh did. To 'know' in Hebrew bears the meaning of having intimacy with someone. He's effectively saying, "I don't care about Yahweh," and as a result, he and his nation pay a terrible penalty. 'Remember how the enemy has mocked You, O LORD; how foolish people have reviled Your name' (Psalm 74:18).
Read Exodus 20:11. The rationale for the commandment is God's reat after creation.
My task was to find the commandment before Exodus 19, and that I have done. 'One could argue' all sorts of things, including that the concept of a Sabbath rest was already well known to the Israelites. I only observe that Exodus 16 comes before Exodus 19
Some commentators see the concept of the Sabbath in Genesis 4:3 since 'in the process [or 'course'] of time' is literally 'at the end of days' and might refer to the Sabbath.
Well I hope that this post will be helpful to you.
kyredneck,.
I think it is
How did Adam acquire...language skills and a vocabulary???? was he given a hooked on phonics book, ? Or do you think God might have had something to do with it?
I think it is
That is quite a statement KYRED...answer me this;
How did Adam acquire...language skills and a vocabulary???? was he given a hooked on phonics book, ? Or do you think God might have had something to do with it?
No...you are re-reading the summary of the two tables of the law back into biblical history....if there were only two commandments instead of ten why were the others given...as filler?
ibid;
The Law of God is a unity. To break one of God’s Commandments is to break them all (Rom. 3:19–20; Gal. 3:10; Jas. 2:10).
Every sin is against God. Every sinner is a law–breaker, an “outlaw” before God— whether one or all of the commandments are broken—and the one penalty for the breaking of one or all the commandments is death—eternal death— because all sin and every sin is against God himself—an infinite, eternal, holy and righteous God. God has legislated morality in the Decalogue.
These Commandments cannot be improved upon, and, in principle, underlie the religious, moral, philosophical, legal and social basis of all historical attempts at equitable and consistent human law. We simply must not casually set aside or ignore the Moral Law of God!
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I concur that the Decalogue (the Ten Commandments) is not the Old Covenant, although the Old Covenant includes the Decalogue. The basis for the Old Covenant began first with Abraham. Indeed, God said of Abraham, "because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws" (Genesis 26:5). So, God's law existed before Sinai.
Sixth, sin, righteousness and love must be defined and understood in terms of Law (Rom. 8:3–4; 13:8–10; 1 Jn. 3:4). “Love” is not the fulfillment of the Law in a temporal sense, but in an interpretive sense. Apart from Law, love remains biblically undefined and stripped of its necessary moral character. The absence or abrogation of the Law is not freedom, but lawlessness (Rom. 13:8–10; Gal. 5:22–23; 1 Tim. 1:5). Finally, the Moral Law of God is not only reiterated—it is strengthened in the New Testament, which reveals its true spiritual nature (Matt. 5:17–19, 27– 29; 43–44, 48; Rom. 7:12; 1 Tim. 1:5–11; 1 Jn. 3:15). Faith does not render the Law of God void, but rather establishes it (Rom. 3:21–31). As believers, we “died to the law” as an instrument of condemnation. By virtue of our union with Christ and faith in him the Law is established, not abrogated (Rom. 3:21–31; 7:4; Gal. 2:16–21). This “establishment of the Law” by faith is shown in two ways: first, in his active [his holy, blameless life] and passive [his suffering and death] obedience, our Lord vicariously both kept the Law for us and then paid its penalty. Thus, the claims of the Law against us have been fully answered by virtue of our union with Christ. Second, upon the basis of our Lord’s redemptive work, the Holy Spirit enables us to conform to the Law in principle. This is not justifying behavior, but the sanctifying work of the Spirit of grace (Ezk. 36:25–27; Rom. 6:14; 8:1–4; 2 Cor. 3:1–6; Gal. 5:22–23; Heb. 8:1–13).
If the Law has not been abrogated, then what is its relevance?
The relevance and perpetuity of the Moral Law may be understood by the following considerations: first, the prologue to the Decalogue sets the historical, redemptive and covenantal context for the Law: “And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage” (Ex.20:1–2).
God reveals himself as Israel’s covenant God and Redeemer. Thus, the Law was given to a redeemed covenant people that they might reflect the moral character of the Lord their God, not as a means to salvation or simply as a legalistic document for Israel. Redemption requires revelation, and revelation contains legislation in both the Old and New Covenants (Rom. 3:19–20; 1 Tim. 1:8–10; 1 Jn. 2:3– 5).
This historic giving of the Law in this codified manner must be understood in the greater context of the Abrahamic Covenant (Gen. 12:1–3; Ex. 2:24; Dt. 29:12–13).
Believers in the Gospel economy are likewise to reflect the moral character of God as his redeemed covenant people in Jesus Christ (Heb. 12:14; 1 Pet. 1:14–16; 2:9), who is the true “Seed of Abraham” and the fulfillment of that covenantal promise (Gal. 3:6–26).
The Law magnifies the Lord Jesus. His redemptive work fulfilled its demands as to our justification. We are to reflect the righteousness of the Law as to our sanctification in obedience to him by the grace and Spirit of God (Rom. 8:1–4; 1 Jn. 2:3–5).
The relevance and perpetuity of the Moral Law may be understood by the following considerations: first, the prologue to the Decalogue sets the historical, redemptive and covenantal context for the Law: “And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage” (Ex.20:1–2).
God reveals himself as Israel’s covenant God and Redeemer. Thus, the Law was given to a redeemed covenant people that they might reflect the moral character of the Lord their God, not as a means to salvation or simply as a legalistic document for Israel. Redemption requires revelation, and revelation contains legislation in both the Old and New Covenants (Rom. 3:19–20; 1 Tim. 1:8–10; 1 Jn. 2:3– 5).
This historic giving of the Law in this codified manner must be understood in the greater context of the Abrahamic Covenant (Gen. 12:1–3; Ex. 2:24; Dt. 29:12–13).
Believers in the Gospel economy are likewise to reflect the moral character of God as his redeemed covenant people in Jesus Christ (Heb. 12:14; 1 Pet. 1:14–16; 2:9), who is the true “Seed of Abraham” and the fulfillment of that covenantal promise (Gal. 3:6–26).
The Law magnifies the Lord Jesus. His redemptive work fulfilled its demands as to our justification. We are to reflect the righteousness of the Law as to our sanctification in obedience to him by the grace and Spirit of God (Rom. 8:1–4; 1 Jn. 2:3–5).
Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said to him, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
This is the first and greatest commandment.
The second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
All the law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”
This is the first and greatest commandment.
The second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
All the law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
The Two Great Commandments preceded the Ten. Because the Ten HUNG from them. The Two did not HANG from the Ten.
“On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” (Matthew 22:40) (KJV 1900)
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
It still remains, the Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant.
Exodus 34:28
“And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.”
Deuteronomy 4:13:
“And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.”
Deuteronomy 9:9:
“When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.”
Deuteronomy 9:15:
“So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.”
“There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt,” I Kings 8:9
“And there have I set a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of Jehovah, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.” I Kings 8:21
““Indeed, a time is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I delivered them from Egypt. For they violated that covenant, even though I was like a faithful husband to them,” says the Lord.” (Jeremiah 31:31–32) (NET)
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
It still remains, the Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant.
Exodus 34:28
“And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.”
Deuteronomy 4:13:
“And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.”
Deuteronomy 9:9:
“When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.”
Deuteronomy 9:15:
“So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.”
“There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt,” I Kings 8:9
“And there have I set a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of Jehovah, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.” I Kings 8:21
No He didn't. John 14:15; 1 John 5:3.[/QUOTE]
Yes he did.......
““Indeed, a time is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I delivered them from Egypt. For they violated that covenant, even though I was like a faithful husband to them,” says the Lord.” (Jeremiah 31:31–32) (NET)
What still remains is your error ......but we have the right to be wrong in this country.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
If you want any of the Law, you must keep it all according to James and Paul. And, you must reject Christ and the New Covenant. I'll also add not heating your house in the dead of winter on Saturday. No drivers license pictures, or art. And you must provide proof you are linked directly to those to whom God gave the Law. That is, those he brought out of Egypt. He addressed it to no other nation or group....
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