The fundamentals of the faith

[evangelist6589]

Let's have a chat on this one as all of us needs to agree here. Notice I said nothing about bible translations, eschatology, CAL VS ARMIN, evangelism methods, preaching style, music, alcoholic beverages, nor spiritual gifts.

So do you believe in justification by faith alone? The Trinity? The deity of Christ? Sin and hellfire? The blood? The cross and resurrection? The authority of scripture? Salvation is by grace through faith? Etc??

 

[Yeshua1]

Let's have a chat on this one as all of us needs to agree here. Notice I said nothing about bible translations, eschatology, CAL VS ARMIN, evangelism methods, preaching style, music, alcoholic beverages, nor spiritual gifts.

So do you believe in justification by faith alone? The Trinity? The deity of Christ? Sin and hellfire? The blood? The cross and resurrection? The authority of scripture? Salvation is by grace through faith? Etc??

All of the above would be under essential christian doctrines to be held!

 

[evangelist6589]

All of the above would be under essential christian doctrines to be held!

Amen!!!!! Well said.

 

[JonC]

All of the above would be under essential christian doctrines to be held!

Amen!!!!! Well said.

Do you mean that a correct view of those doctrines are essential to salvation?

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you mean that a correct view of those doctrines are essential to salvation?

Would hold to that there are first tiered doctrines that MUST be held with in order to qualify as being a real Christian...

Those would be in areas of us all have sinned, that jesus death ALONE pays for sin debt, that its by grace alone faith alone God saves any of us, and that jesus bodily rose from the dead... And that he is Coming Again

Second tiered issues to me would the views on the scriptures and modes of baptism, as while we all SHOULD hold to the bible being infalliable/inerrant, some do not, and while believers baptism preferred baptising mode, othersd hold to other forms...

 

[JonC]

Would hold to that there are first tiered doctrines that MUST be held with in order to qualify as being a real Christian...

Those would be in areas of us all have sinned, that jesus death ALONE pays for sin debt, that its by grace alone faith alone God saves any of us, and that jesus bodily rose from the dead... And that he is Coming Again

Second tiered issues to me would the views on the scriptures and modes of baptism, as while we all SHOULD hold to the bible being infalliable/inerrant, some do not, and while believers baptism preferred baptising mode, othersd hold to other forms...

There are some issues that I think one can not understand and still be a Christian (the Trinity, for example). But a denial of those (again, the Trinity as an example) would be unorthodox and error. I'm not sure that I would be able to conclusively state that if someone denied the Trinity then that person is not saved (this would be adding to the gospel an understanding that may come later)....but it is what I would consider a "first tiered issue." My reasoning is that a denial places one within the realm of unorthodox.

So in terms of belief...calling a belief "Christian" I certainly agree with you. I'm not sure that we can state a person is not saved if they reject some of what I'd consider "first tier" doctrines.

 

[The Biblicist]

Let's have a chat on this one as all of us needs to agree here. Notice I said nothing about bible translations, eschatology, CAL VS ARMIN, evangelism methods, preaching style, music, alcoholic beverages, nor spiritual gifts.

So do you believe in justification by faith alone? The Trinity? The deity of Christ? Sin and hellfire? The blood? The cross and resurrection? The authority of scripture? Salvation is by grace through faith? Etc??

I apply three Biblical based principles in order to define the "essentials" or "the faith once delivered."

1. EVERYTHING the Scripture clearly and explicitly states must not be denied or must be received is part of "the faith."

2. EVERYTHING necessary to distinguish New Testament Christianity from other world religions and from predicted apostate Christianity is part of "the faith."

3. EVERYTHING necessary in Scripture to perpetuate and prove the above two principles is part of "the faith."

It is evident that Jude 3 did not have the scripture canon in view because:

1. It was still being written when he wrote that

2. The use of the Aorist tense "once delivered" points back to a completed action which I believe is Matthew 28:19-20.

 

[Tom Butler]

I think that's a pretty good list of fundamentals. But let me throw in a question here.

Is it necessary for one to know, understand and believe all those doctrines in order to be saved?

The Lord saved me when I was 9 years old. When I came under conviction and ran down the aisle to my pastor, he asked me a few questions. One, do you understand that you are a sinner? Do you understand the penalty for sin? Do you trust Jesus and Him alone for your salvation?

That was it. Nothing about the Trinity, nothing about justification, the deity of Christ. I knew nothing of those things until later in my growth as a Christian.

So, the question is, how much knowledge of the fundamentals does one need to know and believe in order to be saved?

 

[The Biblicist]

I think that's a pretty good list of fundamentals. But let me throw in a question here.

Is it necessary for one to know, understand and believe all those doctrines in order to be saved?

The Lord saved me when I was 9 years old. When I came under conviction and ran down the aisle to my pastor, he asked me a few questions. One, do you understand that you are a sinner? Do you understand the penalty for sin? Do you trust Jesus and Him alone for your salvation?

That was it. Nothing about the Trinity, nothing about justification, the deity of Christ. I knew nothing of those things until later in my growth as a Christian.

So, the question is, how much knowledge of the fundamentals does one need to know and believe in order to be saved?

First, gospelization precedes "teaching them to observe" in the Great Commission - Mt. 28:19-20

Second, the only thing required for salvation to occur is repentance of sin and faith in Christ as revealed in the gospel as wholly sufficient to save your from your sins.

However, if you are in a condition of conscious rebellion against the Biblical revelation of God or the gospel, salvation is not possible until that rebellion is dealt with in a repentant attitude. I believe that repentance and faith are given and inclusive of whatever conscious rebellion exists.

 

[Yeshua1]

There are some issues that I think one can not understand and still be a Christian (the Trinity, for example). But a denial of those (again, the Trinity as an example) would be unorthodox and error. I'm not sure that I would be able to conclusively state that if someone denied the Trinity then that person is not saved (this would be adding to the gospel an understanding that may come later)....but it is what I would consider a "first tiered issue." My reasoning is that a denial places one within the realm of unorthodox.

So in terms of belief...calling a belief "Christian" I certainly agree with you. I'm not sure that we can state a person is not saved if they reject some of what I'd consider "first tier" doctrines.

Not holding to a trinitarian view on God would indeed be outside Christian orthodoxy, but the rub on that is that NONE of us really understanding how God id 3 and yet still only 1 no matter how long been saved!

 

[Carpenter]

I think that's a pretty good list of fundamentals. But let me throw in a question here.

Is it necessary for one to know, understand and believe all those doctrines in order to be saved?

The Lord saved me when I was 9 years old. When I came under conviction and ran down the aisle to my pastor, he asked me a few questions. One, do you understand that you are a sinner? Do you understand the penalty for sin? Do you trust Jesus and Him alone for your salvation?

That was it. Nothing about the Trinity, nothing about justification, the deity of Christ. I knew nothing of those things until later in my growth as a Christian.

So, the question is, how much knowledge of the fundamentals does one need to know and believe in order to be saved?

Brother Tom,

Please don't take this the wrong way as I am in no way questioning your salvation experience, but just wanted to ask for my own curiosity:

What helped you or convinced you that Jesus was who you needed to put your faith and trust in? If there was no understanding that Jesus was deity and that his death was substitutionary on your behalf, what would lead you to believe that He was who you needed to trust in?

I ask this because it is always a concern of mine when one of the little ones I teach each week (K-2nd grade) says that they want to get saved or that they got saved. I am always concerned that they truly understand what salvation means so that when they get older, they are not relying on something they did as a child just because they were told that's what they should do, but rather have assurance that there decision to follow Christ was out of an understanding of who Jesus is and why He is able to save.

This has always been on my heart because of my own experience of making a profession of faith as a child, only to realize later in life that I had not truly put my trust in Jesus.

 

[quantumfaith]

13 People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16 And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them.

Perhaps it is unfortunate as adults when we become "wiser" and "more knowledgeable" we miss some of the purity of faith demonstrated by children.

 

[Greektim]

Let's have a chat on this one as all of us needs to agree here. Notice I said nothing about bible translations, eschatology, CAL VS ARMIN, evangelism methods, preaching style, music, alcoholic beverages, nor spiritual gifts.

So do you believe in justification by faith alone? The Trinity? The deity of Christ? Sin and hellfire? The blood? The cross and resurrection? The authority of scripture? Salvation is by grace through faith? Etc??

Hold on...

Do you mean fundamental to identify the Christian faith as opposed to a different faith system (even counterfeits likes Mormons and etc)?

or

Do you mean fundamental to salvation... i.e. the gospel?

In other words, do you mean the objective faith or the subjective faith?

 

[Gold Dragon]

On the previous version of the baptistboard about a decade ago, I had a heresy poll that covered 30 or so theologies considered orthodox and asked if not believing a theology was considered heresy. We can only do 10 options on a poll now so I thought this thread would be a good one to to redo the poll with several polls. So the question is...

Not believing in which of the following would be heretical:

Theology poll
Christology poll
Soteriology poll
Baptist theology poll
Fundamental vs Liberal poll
Other issues poll

 

[Yeshua1]

Hold on...

Do you mean fundamental to identify the Christian faith as opposed to a different faith system (even counterfeits likes Mormons and etc)?

or

Do you mean fundamental to salvation... i.e. the gospel?

In other words, do you mean the objective faith or the subjective faith?

What exactly does the Bible say is absolute minimum needed to hold and agree with in order to be saved?

 

[JonC]

What exactly does the Bible say is absolute minimum needed to hold and agree with in order to be saved?

Repent and believe in the gospel.

 

[Yeshua1]

Repent and believe in the gospel.

Please define what that means in a biblical contex though!

 

[percho]

Could one lean far enough toward Monergism to not have to hold to any of the above?

I know all want to feel important but are any truly important outside of the purpose of God?

Just what is the faith once delivered? What if it is? > To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 2 Cor 5:19

Compare to.

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, <(the faith once deliveded?) according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:(God?) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; In him: (self, God?) Eph 1:9,10

 

[salzer mtn]

Brother Tom,

Please don't take this the wrong way as I am in no way questioning your salvation experience, but just wanted to ask for my own curiosity:

What helped you or convinced you that Jesus was who you needed to put your faith and trust in? If there was no understanding that Jesus was deity and that his death was substitutionary on your behalf, what would lead you to believe that He was who you needed to trust in?

I ask this because it is always a concern of mine when one of the little ones I teach each week (K-2nd grade) says that they want to get saved or that they got saved. I am always concerned that they truly understand what salvation means so that when they get older, they are not relying on something they did as a child just because they were told that's what they should do, but rather have assurance that there decision to follow Christ was out of an understanding of who Jesus is and why He is able to save.

This has always been on my heart because of my own experience of making a profession of faith as a child, only to realize later in life that I had not truly put my trust in Jesus.

As a older man and having been saved since I was twenty three years old and having been a witness to evangelist giving their high pressure altar calls and targeting younger children to make professions in order to further their own advancement, most of the children that made professions at an early age have grown up and went the way of the world. Why ? because these professional sales person preachers presented a jesus to children that they viewed to be more like Santa Claus or the tooth fairy.

 

[Tom Butler]

Brother Tom,

Please don't take this the wrong way as I am in no way questioning your salvation experience, but just wanted to ask for my own curiosity:

What helped you or convinced you that Jesus was who you needed to put your faith and trust in? If there was no understanding that Jesus was deity and that his death was substitutionary on your behalf, what would lead you to believe that He was who you needed to trust in?

I ask this because it is always a concern of mine when one of the little ones I teach each week (K-2nd grade) says that they want to get saved or that they got saved. I am always concerned that they truly understand what salvation means so that when they get older, they are not relying on something they did as a child just because they were told that's what they should do, but rather have assurance that there decision to follow Christ was out of an understanding of who Jesus is and why He is able to save.

This has always been on my heart because of my own experience of making a profession of faith as a child, only to realize later in life that I had not truly put my trust in Jesus.

I understand the concern about children. I have re-examined my conversion experience more than once, and the Holy Spirit has confirmed it to me that it was valid at age 9. The Lord saved me during a normal church service, during a normal invitation. No pressure, no manipulation of emotion.

I had heard many sermons, many invitations, many Sunday School lessons. But one thing I had never experienced was Holy Spirit illumination and conviction until that day. Then all those sermons and invitations jumped out at me. The Spirit opened my understanding. I was a sinner. Sinners are bound for hell. Jesus died to save sinners. Repent. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you'll be saved.

Down the aisle I went.

As I said earlier, I've re-examined that day many times. I've not always lived a life pleasing to God, but, thankfully, He beat up on me.

Looking back, that disciplining was another confirmation of my salvation. Fathers discipline their own children.