The Furnace of Affliction

[KenH]

"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

According to God's own testimony, "that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God," (Acts 14:22); and therefore there is no entering into the kingdom of grace here, or the kingdom of glory hereafter, without it. But let this be ever borne in mind, that whatever affliction befalls the saints, it is laid upon them by the hand of God, and that for the express purpose of putting them into a situation and of making them capable of receiving those comforts which God only can bestow.

None but Jesus himself and the Father can comfort a truly afflicted heart. And he can and does from time to time comfort his dear people by a sense of his presence; by a word of power from his gracious lips; by the light of his countenance; by the balm of his atoning blood and dying love; and by the work and witness of the Spirit within. And as they receive this consolation from the mouth of God, their hearts are comforted. How good the Lord is of his own free grace to bestow such blessings upon his redeemed family! May he give us much of them! And may he, wherever he has bestowed upon any of us everlasting consolation, or even a good hope through grace, comfort our hearts as we journey through this valley of tears, and may our consolations be neither few nor small.

- J.C. Philpot, Daily Portions, April 2

 

[Ascetic X]

"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

According to God's own testimony, "that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God," (Acts 14:22); and therefore there is no entering into the kingdom of grace here, or the kingdom of glory hereafter, without it. But let this be ever borne in mind, that whatever affliction befalls the saints, it is laid upon them by the hand of God, and that for the express purpose of putting them into a situation and of making them capable of receiving those comforts which God only can bestow.

- J.C. Philpot, Daily Portions, April 2

I would say that afflictions are allowed by God, but not necessarily put on us by God.

Jesus healed, restored sight to the blind, cleansed lepers, cast out demons, and raised the dead. If these afflictions were put upon people by God, then Jesus would be acting in opposition to God.

Apostle Paul’s persecution, which he called a thorn in the flesh, buffeted and hindered Paul. God allowed it and would not stop it, but it is called a messenger of Satan.

Job’s afflictions were allowed by God, but they were put on Job by Satan.

 

[KenH]

I would say that afflictions are allowed by God, but not necessarily put on us by God.

Jesus healed, restored sight to the blind, cleansed lepers, cast out demons, and raised the dead. If these afflictions were put upon people by God, then Jesus would be acting in opposition to God.

Apostle Paul’s persecution, which he called a thorn in the flesh, buffeted and hindered Paul. God allowed it and would not stop it, but it is called a messenger of Satan.

Job’s afflictions were allowed by God, but they were put on Job by Satan.

I thoroughly disagree with your viewpoint, which smacks greatly of Deism.

 

[Ascetic X]

I thoroughly disagree with your viewpoint, which smacks greatly of Deism.

Explain how my statements are in error:

QUOTE

Jesus healed, restored sight to the blind, cleansed lepers, cast out demons, and raised the dead. If these afflictions were put upon people by God, then Jesus would be acting in opposition to God.

Apostle Paul’s persecution, which he called a thorn in the flesh, buffeted and hindered Paul. God allowed it and would not stop it, but it is called a messenger of Satan.

Job’s afflictions were allowed by God, but they were put on Job by Satan.

END QUOTE

My devout attitude toward God is nothing like Deism, which is an 17th-18th century rationalist philosophy believing in a supreme creator who established natural laws but does not intervene in the universe. It rejects organized religion, miracles, and divine revelation, relying solely on reason and observation of nature. Key figures include Thomas Jefferson, Voltaire, and Thomas Paine.

 

[KenH]

Explain how my statements are in error:

I consider any belief system that does not adhere to the Biblical teaching that God is absolutely totally sovereign over His creation, whatever the extent of that lack of adherence to the Biblical teaching, to be that that extent Deistic in practice.

Any amount of Deism is false teaching as it holds that God is not totally absolutely sovereign, but some percentage sovereign, which for different opponents of God's absolute sovereignty might vary.

So what percentage do you place your idea of God's sovereignty at, Ascetic X? 90% or maybe 70% or maybe 40% or maybe 10%?

 

[Ascetic X]

I consider any belief system that does not adhere to the Biblical teaching that God is absolutely totally sovereign over His creation, whatever the extent of that lack of adherence to the Biblical teaching, to be that that extent Deistic in practice.

Any amount of Deism is false teaching as it holds that God is not totally absolutely sovereign, but some percentage sovereign, which for different opponents of God's absolute sovereignty might vary.

So what percentage do you place your idea of God's sovereignty at, Ascetic X? 90% or maybe 70% or maybe 40% or maybe 10%?

You misuse the word “deism” — and you employ “sovereignty” to mean control without free will or individual responsibility, distorting God into a puppet master.

You are incapable of addressing my 3 assertions:

Jesus healed, restored sight to the blind, cleansed lepers, cast out demons, and raised the dead. If these afflictions were put upon people by God, then Jesus would be acting in opposition to God.

Apostle Paul’s persecution, which he called a thorn in the flesh, buffeted and hindered Paul. God allowed it and would not stop it, but it is called a messenger of Satan.

Job’s afflictions were allowed by God, but they were put on Job by Satan.