The Galatians fight back

Yes, God did "choose", by Giving His Son to be the "Savior of the World" for "Whosoever Believeth in Him."

 

And the choosing of God was of an individual and the choosing is what brought belief. God did not choose some nebulous undefined group, nor did he choose a method (believing). He chose people and he chose them to be saved.

What I said above is biblical teaching, and therefore, is Calvinism. I know you don't agree with it, based on what you have said, unless you had some grand conversion in the last few minutes here.

 

Larry;

You always state what you can't prove. You have not proven what you say or claim about grace. In fact you can't prove it with scripture. Grace simply is not irresistable.

I'll be back in a few days. someone needs my help. I will continue this when I return. Have a great weekend
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

I did prove what I said about grace. Your problerm is you didn't know what we were talking about. Irresistable grace wasn't even the topic. The topic was giving grace. Wes said grace was not a commodity that God could give. Peter said that "God gives more grace." Wes's comments were a direct denial of God's inspired revelation. I proved my statement by my reference to Scripture.

If you want to talk about irresistable grace, then you need to understand what Calvinists mean by that. It does not mean that God's grace in salvation cannot be resisted. Acts makes it clear that some did resist grace. What the "I" stands for in Tulip is really the concept of effectual call. The idea is that God's call of salvation to his elect is effectual, it accomplishes what he intends it to, namely it secures the response of faith. John Murray has a little book called Redemption: Accomplished and Applied that will give a good explanation of that idea for you so you can learn what Calvinists mean. But suffice it to say that Calvinists do believe that grace can be resisted.

 

Larry, If you want to win the case of Grace, YOU must prove that what Peter says is true! You must actually receive more grace if God gives more grace. How do you, a mere mortal, know that you are receiving more grace, you cannot even identify what it is!

 

Wes,
Are you saying that you do not believe what the Bible (God) says?

 

Wes,
Just to let you know:

Grace is one of those substances not seen.

Therefor, it can not be given in a physical sense.

But when one does have it, there is clear evidence of it.

Sincerely,
Here Now

 

Wes,
Are you saying that you do not believe what the Bible (God) says? </font>[/QUOTE]NO! That is not what I'm saying

 

Wes,
Are you saying that you do not believe what the Bible (God) says? </font>[/QUOTE]NO! That is not what I'm saying </font>[/QUOTE]Wes,
So why do you ask someone to prove what the Bible CLEARLY states?

 

Wes,
Just to let you know:

Grace is one of those substances not seen.

Therefor, it can not be given in a physical sense.

But when one does have it, there is clear evidence of it.

Sincerely,
Here Now </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, Grace is an Unseen ATTRIBUTE of God, it is not a substance!

You are right, There is nothing physical about grace! And NO, it cannot be given at all! It is a behavioural attribute of the one possessing Grace, and Yes all or us created human beings have grace!

When one behaves graciously, it is evident to all to whom the gracious behavior is directed.

 

Wes,
Are you saying that you do not believe what the Bible (God) says?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NO! That is not what I'm saying
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wes,
So why do you ask someone to prove what the Bible CLEARLY states?

 

Because the bible does not clearly state what I am asking proof of! It is merely an individual's interpretation of what the bible says.

Besides there is much evidence to the contrary for a thinking person to blindly accept the literal words of portions of the bible. In the past 2000 years, especially the last two centuries, there has been much knowledge gained that both supports the bible and that opposes certain phraseology within the bible.

 

First, why question the Bible? It is the inspired revelation of hte God who cannot lie. Therefore, it is true. This is the type of statement that leads me to believe you should be posting in the other religions forum. The truthfulness of the Bible is not up for debate in here. It is a prerequisite to the discussion.

Secondly, why do you think I can't identify what grace is? Grace is the strength to bear up under temptation and the draw hear to God. That is clear from Scripture. You do not have that in yourself. You receive it from God. No one says grace is physical or "seen." And yes, it can be given.

 

"Bearing up" is what we do while God's grace is present! It is not Grace!

"Drawing near to God" is what we do as a matter of our faith, while God's grace is present. It too is not grace!

We do not get more grace to do those things! We do those things while God's grace is present!

If, as you say, grace can be given then prove it can! And no your tolerance of such discussion is not evidence that you are "giving" grace. It only shows that you have grace, but not how much grace you have, so there is no way to measure the grace you have in order to determine that you are "gaining more" through God "giving more". The scriptures, Malachi I believe says that God changes not. If God is giving you grace in a manner of transfer of ownership, then God would be "changing" because he would be losing while you are gaining. That is the nature of transfer of ownership.

Demonstrate that grace can be given and received!

This forum is the place that such untruths as you just stated, permeate the topics. It is appropriate to confront it where it is!

 

The Bible say that God gives grace. That is the end of discussion. You said that wasn't true. You need to either change your opinion, or post elsewhere.

Your statement that to give grace, God must be changing, reveals that you do not understand the attributes of God. He is infinite, without limit. Whatever he gives does not diminish his storehouse. That was a false argument on your part stemming from a false understanding.

I have demonstrated that grace can be given and received by citing Peter. I should add Paul in 2 Cor 13 who received grace to bear up under his thorn in the flesh. Paul, writing under the inspiration fo the Spirit, says that God gives more grace, and that he received it. Therefore, this argument should be over.

 

The Bible say that God gives grace. That is the end of discussion. You said that wasn't true. You need to either change your opinion, or post elsewhere.

Your statement that to give grace, God must be changing, reveals that you do not understand the attributes of God. He is infinite, without limit. Whatever he gives does not diminish his storehouse. That was a false argument on your part stemming from a false understanding.

I have demonstrated that grace can be given and received by citing Peter. I should add Paul in 2 Cor 13 who received grace to bear up under his thorn in the flesh. Paul, writing under the inspiration fo the Spirit, says that God gives more grace, and that he received it. Therefore, this argument should be over.

If you want to doubt Scripture, post elsewhere, not here. This forum is built on the presupposition that you accept the inspiration and inerrancy of God's word. If you do not, then you cannot contribute to this discussion.

 

Amen Larry,

It is strange that one would take such a view of Grace when the Bible says over and over in the NT that Grace is given to us.

 

Larry it is you that does not understand the attributes of God. Grace is an attribute of God!

Attribute is defined as: "something attributed as belonging to a person, thing, group, etc.; a quality, character, characteristic, or property: Sensitivity is one of his attributes.[/quote]
So if you are refering to God's grace, it is something true of God! That which is true of the one possessing it, cannot be given to another! Unless of course you are speaking of tangibles such as "rich". Riches can be transfered. Grace being something true of God cannot be given because it is not tangible!

 

I'll second that!