The Galatians fight back

Larry it is you that does not understand the attributes of God. Grace is an attribute of God!

Attribute is defined as: "something attributed as belonging to a person, thing, group, etc.; a quality, character, characteristic, or property: Sensitivity is one of his attributes.</font>[/QUOTE]So if you are refering to God's grace, it is something true of God! That which is true of the one possessing it, cannot be given to another! Unless of course you are speaking of tangibles such as "rich". Riches can be transfered. Grace being something true of God cannot be given because it is not tangible! [/QUOTE]

Then why does the Bible say that it is GIVEN?

 

Because the bible is expressing the behavior of God concerning his creation, not the transfer of something from God to man.

 

You probably don't want to get in that discussion with me. I have spent the last two months teaching on the attributes of God and have renewed my study on them. I am well aware of what they are.

That is simply not true, and it is direct denial of Scripture.

Psalm 84:11 11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield; The LORD gives grace and glory; No good thing does He withhold from those who walk uprightly.

Proverbs 3:34 34 Though He scoffs at the scoffers, Yet He gives grace to the afflicted.

Romans 12:3 3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure

Romans 12:6 6 Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith;

1 Corinthians 1:4 4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,

1 Corinthians 3:10 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.

Ephesians 4:7 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.

James 4:6 6 But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, "GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE."

Part of God's behavior is giving grace to people. That is what he says. How many times does God have to say it until you change your theology? Right now, you are directly denying the word of God. That is unacceptable to post in this forum. Either change your view or don't post here.

When the Bible says that God gives grace, it is not up to you to say differently.

 

Who gives grace to the unbelievers that I know who are very gracious, not only to each other, but to those who would do them harm?

 

The Grace of God is not the same as the graciousness of humans.

Grace is God's unmerited salvific favor extended to humans.

Graciousness is simply good manners. Some unbelievers have more graciousness than some Christians. If you don't believe it just look at how some of the "Christians" act on this board!

 

I ain't buyin' it Hardsheller. Grace is Grace no matter who exhibits it!

 

You don't have to buy it Wes, God's Grace is Free!

 

God does.

Acts 17:25 ... since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;

Once again, Wes, your question is answered directly by Scripture.

 

Then Why do Calvinist's ignore Acts 17:25 and INSIST that God only does for that nebulous, indescribable, completely elusive, unidentifiable, unquantifiable group called "the elect"? That is what is not scriptural! And here, you provide the evidence that declares that such a false belief is unscriptural!

Unless of course, you do not believe what Paul is saying to the Athenians

Well, doggoned if Paul didn't just refute the "totally incapable of seeking God" dogma of Calvinism! Amazing what one finds when another is firing his .50 caliber dogma machine gun in an effort to shoot ya down.

 

Ok you Calvin naysayers...

How do you explain this?

John 15:5 "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."

Don't tell me! Lemme guess... Your just going to ignore this verse???

 

I don't know of any Calvinists who ignore that. You probably just don't know what you are talking about. The poin is clear: God has arranged human history so that people would seek and find him.

 

Then why do Calvin naysayers ignore:

Revelation 17:8 "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

 

Jesus, Speaking to his disciples said,

Just thought a little CONTEXT would help! Ya see, In Context verse 5 does not mean what you want it to!

 

Hi Larry;

No you didn't prove any thing Larry because like I said your word isn't worth much. God's word is the only word that carry's any meaning.

Larry just like all the other false claims of Calvinism's tulip we now have Larry stating that Irresistible grace isn't really irresistible. This ought to be good Larry. Total depravity isn't total and Irresitible isn't irresistible Limited Atonement isn't limited and Election isn't really unconditional perseverance isn't really perseverance. And Calvinism isn't really Calvinism. What's next Salvation isn't really Salvation.
Don't you realize just how ridiculous this sounds?
You know if I say I have $10.00 and I don't have this is called a lie. If you say irresistible grace isn't really irresistible then it's name is a lie. It implies something it really isn't. Old Beza must not have known what he was talking about. Must have been that wonderful education he had.

I've read all that nonsense about this effectual call. It is totally non scriptural bull. The word isn't found in scripture. Calvinism as you preach it is not scripture but the rantings of someone who didn't know what he was talking about.
You mention John Murray Why should I believe that his teaching are inspired by God. When what he obviously preaches isn't in scripture. I think what Paul preached about any other gospel would apply here.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Mike,

Do you agree with WES on Grace?

 

Hi Hardsheller;

If this is what your asking about Yes I do agree. Don't you?!!!!!
Did you expect me to say something else.

One thing we can all count on here is that Larry knows all there is to know about the subject and none know what we are talking about. including you. Why shucks we're all lucky to have Larry here to set us straight.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Mike,

Let me be more specific.

Wes believes that Grace is not something that is given to us by God but is something we alreasy possess.

Do you believe that as well?

 

Hi Hardsheller;
Your question;

Yes I do other wise He wouldn't have died for the sins of the whole world...
Maybe it's your limited view of Atonement that is confussing you.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Hardsheller, perhaps you would care to engage this issue by explaining exactly how one transfers ownership of one's attributes to another.

First, tell us WHAT grace is, then Tell us exactly how God gives that Grace FROM his ownership to our ownership.

No I don't want you to tell us about how unlimited God is and that he will never run out of what he gives. I want to know the details of how it is transfered to man from God! I what you to explain how man recognizes it and how man knows what to do with it once he's got it!

Then perhaps we can have a good conversation about grace.

 

Hardsheller;
If Grace were a substance then it could be given. However when we are saved by grace it isn't because we are given grace per-sey. we are actually shown the grace of God we are shown his favor in other words He favors us because of our faith. This is how we are saved. I thought sure you would know that.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike