The Galatians fight back

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, pore ol' Jesus is waiting for you. He's done all he can do. He's just waiting for you to open the door.

Why do you persist in following an anemic, weak, helpless Jesus?

Your Jesus is not the Jesus I see striding into Jericho and stopping at the base of old Zack's tree and commanding him to come down.

Open your eyes Wes and Mike.

 

Hardsheller;
You're denying scripture plain and simple. And to top it off are you to blaspheem against Christ as well?
Mike

 

Hardsheller;
God the Father is pleading for you to accept the truth. He's drawing you to the truth of Christ. Will you evade Him?
Eze 20:36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.

Mike

 

What makes you think that Jesus is doing a work among men today when the scriptures say that He is is seated at the Right Hand of the Father in Heaven?

Why do you think that with the work already completed by God for man's salvation that God must continue to do work?

God's command for us is that we do His work by believing in His Son!

Everything is in place for man:
We have God's word.

Sin has been atoned so man need not die for sin, and indeed does not die for sin.

We have been from the beginning made capable of having faith. And scriptures say that faith comes from hearing God's word.

We have God the Son's (our Saviour's) promise that whosoever believes in Him does not perish, but lives forever.

We have another promise from God the Son that whoever has faith in him IS NOT JUDGED, while those who do not have such faith are condemned by their own unbelief.

We have another promise that whoever believes in God the son, passes from death into everlasting life.

We are told that Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. We hope the promises made to man are fulfilled in us.

We are told that those whose names are not found in the book of Life are cast into the lake of fire (hell is another name).

We are told that names can be written into the book of life, and that names can be blotted from the book of life. So salvation remains contingent upon the faith condition of individual!

Hardsheller, Our eyes are open, we know the truth.

Our Jesus reigns, seated at the right hand of the Father, not at the base of ol' Zack's tree.

 

No Mike, I'm not denying scripture. I'm denying your caricature of the savior. To blaspheme against Christ you have to deny HIM - I'm not denying Him I'm denying You.

 

Wes, Read carefully what you wrote.

You seem to think that the Triune God is, God the Father, Jesus The Son and Man.

Come to think of it, I've never heard you say anything about the Work of the Holy Spirit in Salvation.

Could it be that this is where you're missing the link?

 

No, don't read into what I write, that which you want to find there.

You want to discuss the Holy Spirit? Start another topic. Just remember it must be related to the C vs A debate.

There is no link missing, do you find nothing in what I posted that you might want to refute?

 

Hardsheller;

I wonder are there more than one Christ? Besides the very ones who crucified our Lord must have thought the same when they couldn't get Him to come down off that cross and show His power as God. I'm glad aren't you?...

Eze 20:36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.

This is only scripture and is what you call my caricature of the Savior. I didn't add anything to it. It is as you read it. The problem is you are still ignoring it. All for that big tough dominating God you have in mind. You know the one that is more intrested in showing His power than fulfilling his intent.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Mike,

Who is God pleading with? Answer the question.

 

Wes,

Sure I can refute what you wrote but I thought I would just cut to the chase and get to the real issue at hand.

By your thousands of posts you have clearly stated that you believe Man effects his own salvation rather than God.

 

Hardsheller;

Natural men. sinners just like you and I.

Cutt back on the ordering me to answer your questions. I don't owe you anything but the dust off my shoes.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Correct! Jesus, who is God the son says in John 3:16, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. The last time I checked, Everlasting life is SALVATION. So it is the MAN who believes in Jesus, who is God the Son, that receives everlasting life...SALVATION! GOD SAYS SO! Anyone who says otherwise, is doing so in the face of God!

Faith cometh by hearing and Hearing by the word of God. So, man, when he hears, meaning ACCEPTS, another word for believes, the word of God, establishes faith in what MAN accepts! That faith coming from Hearing the word, is the faith that Jesus was speaking of. So it becomes faith in the Jesus of the word of God, through which MAN is SAVED BY GOD!

But what about the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit illuminates the word of God, and makes it come alive for us as we hear (accept) it. The influence of the Holy Spirit causes the word of God to convict us of our sin nature, and shows us our need of a savior. So the word with the Aid of the Holy Spirit causes us to be willing to submit our own spirit to God and ask for God to save us. And yes, we must ask him to do so because He knows we need it, but he will not force it upon the unwilling, those who do not "hear" the word!

Yes, it is MAN's FAITH CONDITION, that causes him to be saveable by GOD!

 

Natural men. sinners just like you and I.

Cutt back on the ordering me to answer your questions. I don't owe you anything but the dust off my shoes.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike </font>[/QUOTE]Wrong Answer Mike. He's speaking to the ELECT. Get that?

As far as you now owing me anything - you're wrong about that as well.

Jesus said, Mat 5:42 "Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away."

I could have asked you for a loan!

 

Correct! Jesus, who is God the son says in John 3:16, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. The last time I checked, Everlasting life is SALVATION. So it is the MAN who believes in Jesus, who is God the Son, that receives everlasting life...SALVATION! GOD SAYS SO! Anyone who says otherwise, is doing so in the face of God!

Faith cometh by hearing and Hearing by the word of God. So, man, when he hears, meaning ACCEPTS, another word for believes, the word of God, establishes faith in what MAN accepts! That faith coming from Hearing the word, is the faith that Jesus was speaking of. So it becomes faith in the Jesus of the word of God, through which MAN is SAVED BY GOD!

But what about the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit illuminates the word of God, and makes it come alive for us as we hear (accept) it. The influence of the Holy Spirit causes the word of God to convict us of our sin nature, and shows us our need of a savior. So the word with the Aid of the Holy Spirit causes us to be willing to submit our own spirit to God and ask for God to save us. And yes, we must ask him to do so because He knows we need it, but he will not force it upon the unwilling, those who do not "hear" the word!

Yes, it is MAN's FAITH CONDITION, that causes him to be saveable by GOD! </font>[/QUOTE]Interesting that you use John chapter 3 to "prove" your theory that man effects his own salvation when Jesus clearly defines salvation as a "born again" or "born from above" experience in that same chapter. Furthermore he goes on to define the activity of His Spirit as being like the wind that blows where it wills.

Man has no faith condition apart from the Saving Grace of God. God is the Author, Giver and Finisher of Salvation.

Sure man believes but he does not believe and cannot believe without a personal encounter with God.

 

Hardsheller;

It would seem to me if that were provable you'd be the first to show it in scripture.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

It would seem to me if that were provable you'd be the first to show it in scripture.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike </font>[/QUOTE]Well Mike Just read the Book of Acts and you'll have all the proof you need.

 

Hardsheller said,

Then, what you are saying is, "Faith has no place in Salvation!"

How about it folks does this stand up under scrutiny of the scriptures?

 

Wes,
Do you have faith?

 

Then, what you are saying is, "Faith has no place in Salvation!"

How about it folks does this stand up under scrutiny of the scriptures? </font>[/QUOTE]No that is what you are saying WES. Man's faith as you describe faith is meaningless apart from the Saving grace of God.

 

Hardsheller,
All that I have ever said is this:
THE MAN WITHOUT FAITH IN GOD WILL NOT BE SAVED BY GOD.

Man's Faith is uniquely man's alone and does not come to man from any external source in the form of a gift, such as "a gift from God". Man does not receive faith from God, God has no faith to give to man! God, through his word, gives man ALL the reasons to have faith, but faith in God is internal to man alone, and it is that internal faith in God that God looks for in man, which makes the man saveable by God.

One man's faith cannot save another, only what is the man's, that is, a man's household is able to be saved through the man's faith, no that is not a hard and fast rule, as in the case of Eli. Eli had faith in God, His family did not! Therefore Eli's family was condemned forever.

Man's faith is not a transferrable commodity. No man can give to another man any of the faith the man may possess. Every man has the same capability to have faith in God. It is up to the man to have it or not have it.

Faith is such that you either have it or you don't, there is no such thing as "almost faith", or "half-way faith" or "partial faith". it is a black and white condition, no gray areas. There is small faith and Great faith and everything in between. but there is no faith less than full faith regardless of the amount possessed.

There is no such thing as SAVING GRACE! There is ONE GOD, ONE GOD's GRACE, and God is gracious to save ALL who have faith IN HIM! There is no such thing as PREVENIENT GRACE, there is ONE GOD ONE GRACE. Divine Grace comes in one color only...God's Grace! If man cannot be saved while in God's grace, Man cannot be saved at all!
For while in God's grace, we are saved through faith, and not of our selves, salvation is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.
-----------------------------


Yes, Here now, I have faith In God. My faith is built on nothing less than Jesus' Blood and Righteousness. Jesus is God the Son, came to dwell amongst men to teach men (especially, the Apostles and disciples of the Christ) fulfilling the prophesy that 'they will be taught by God' (Isaiah 54:13). Jesus provided the way whereby sinful man can be saved by paying the penalty for SIN, ONCE-for-ALL. BY taking our place in death. Thus, there is NTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED!

Jesus is LORD!