The Galatians fight back

PL: I have no inside information. All you need to do is read the text. He warns people about what unbelief looks like, even when people have made a profession.

BE: Um, where does it say that PL? Are we supposed to interpret this with Scripture + your imagination?

PL: It is clear that in Gal 5:19-21 he is describing works of the flesh.

BE: I wonder if that is because those who has "began in the Spirit" and had miracles done among them were "ending in the flesh?"

PL: It is interestig to note that he doesn't actually say there are any in the church like that. He merely warns about what it looks like.

BE: Oh?

"Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now ending in the flesh?"

"For YOU were called to FREEDOM, brothers only do not turn YOUR FREEDOM into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another... do not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh...the works of the flesh are plain... I warn YOU, as I warned YOU before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (5:13-21).

PL: It is interesting to not that he doesn't actually say there are any in the churc like that. He merely warns about what it looks like.

BE: Still sure about that PL? Maybe you need more evidence to make a sound decision? Do you still insist that he is warning folks who were not free in Christ?

Seems you need to get familiar with Scripture PL.

 

PL: You gave your own answer. He warns "you" about "those" (not necessasrily the "you"). Liek I said, when you read the text carefully, most of your questions are answered.

BE: And why is he warning them about these other people PL?

And why does he follow up with the "You will reap what you sow" exhortation at Galatians 6:7-8?

 

PL: You gave your own answer. He warns "you" about "those" (not necessasrily the "you"). Liek I said, when you read the text carefully, most of your questions are answered.

BE: And why is he warning born again believers about "these other people" PL?

And why does he follow up with the "You will reap what you sow" exhortation at Galatians 6:7-8?

"For YOU were called to FREEDOM, brothers only do not turn YOUR FREEDOM into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another... do not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh...the works of the flesh are plain... I warn YOU, as I warned YOU before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (5:13-21).

He says to those who had been freed in Christ, "I warn YOU."

Yes, to return to the ways of the flesh is to return to bondage, as Paul points out in this letter. And to return to the ways of the flesh will result in not enterning the Kingdom of God. You should take note PL. Your "assurance" is not a condition. It is Christ. So remain in him or you will be pruned and cast into the fire.

[ February 26, 2005, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Ben Elohim ]

 

So in the end PL, only God is privy to the spiritual condition of the church but you know for certain that Paul is not warning the church members to whom he is writing and who are ending in the flesh but some other guys. Since you are pricy to this inside information, I do believe I must be talking to God.

 

PL: Paul is writing to members of the local church, but he does not know their condition. The local church can have unregenerate members, but the presumption is that they are regenerated. Paul is talking about a certain kind of people who may be members of the local church, but be unbelievers.

BE: Well yes he does know the condition of the people he is talking to PL and he points that out several times to them. He is talking to people he knows where born again and were turning back to the flesh.

Also, it may come as a surprise to you that the church is by definition born again believers and not a mix of believers and reprobates.

 

You have one serious problem here PL.

The people that Paul is speaking to were these people:

To the churches of Galatia

YOU are so quickly deserting Him who called YOU by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel

YOU foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you

Did YOU receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Are YOU so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are YOU now being perfected by the flesh?

He who provides YOU with the Spirit and works miracles among YOU

YOU brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.

YOU are ALL sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

YOU were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?

1. WHO are the above people to whom Paul is writing? Are they born again believers or not? And what seems to be the problem with them?

2. WHO are the following people that are being warned?

For YOU were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn YOUR FREEDOM into an opportunity for the flesh.... For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit... the deeds of the flesh are evident... I forewarn YOU, just as I have warned YOU before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

3. And when we come to Paul's warning to those Paul calls "YOU," we are not supposed to believe that this warning actually applies to these born again believers. Is that correct PL?

4. And we are supposed to believe that those who had "began in the Spirit" but were "ending in the flesh" are not the same people that Paul is warning will not enter the Kingdom of God if they practice the ways of the flesh, right PL?

 

The funny part here is that you Calvinists all expect everyone to use their imagination and accept an imaginary idea foreign to the entire message of Galatians. And you have the audacity to accuse others of eisegesis when your posts run rampant with this kind of thing. It is hypocritically shameful in my opinion.

Paul writes this letter to people who were called by God and were deserting for a false gospel and he describes them as born again in many ways and then warns them what this kind of behavior will entail for them if they continue. If these people were not born again I guess we just can't trust the word of God and we can pretend all Paul's observations about them being born again sons of God and children of the promise were illusions. This is who he is writing to.

But you would rather contrive and actually have everyone believe, including yourself, that the problem Paul had with these born again Christians who were turning to the flesh has absolutely no relevance at all with the warning he gives to them about not entering the Kingdom of God if they turn to the flesh, these people who are born again and to whom he is writing. No, we are to conjure up what is necessary for TULIP and declare this warning is for unregenerate souls he has never even mentioned in the letter and we are to believe it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that these called born again people to whom he is writing were deserting Christ for a false gospel. Uh huh.

This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed."