The Galatians fight back

Hi Wes;

Simply put Salvation and Calvinism are not the same thing. Calvinism is not true if it isn't all true. I have found nothing true in Calvinism period.

May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

"I have found nothing true in Calvinism period."

That's because "finding" means you'll have to study something ILL. Can't have that.

 

rc;
What can you prove is true? I know, I know,

 

Converted
CONVERTED, pp. Turned or changed from one substance or state to another; turned form one religion or sect to another; changed from a state of sin to a state of holiness; applied to a particular use; appropriated.

How can one discredit what isn't creditable?
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike </font>[/QUOTE]Do you even own a concordance? If so you might want to consider using it.

 

Hi Hardsheller;

Concordances are not dictionaries. You poorly defined the word Converted. "as turn back" When it means exactly what I said. This is from a dictionary. It happens to be the best tool there is for defining any word and this is it's definition as well agrees with my own.

CONVERTED, pp. Turned or changed from one substance or state to another; turned form one religion or sect to another; changed from a state of sin to a state of holiness; applied to a particular use; appropriated.

I don't know maybe you flunked English.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

Not talking about English but Greek. The word translated "converted" in this verse is "epistrepho". It is translated in many other verses in the NT to read "turn back".

Strong's Concordance or Young's has a dictionary of Hebrew and Greek words as well as the concordance. That's what I meant.

I'm assuming you're a "KJV Only Baptist as well so this is probably wasted effort, but if you're not then you might look at some other translations and see that my definition is not so unusual or out of sync.

 

Mike,

You defined the wrong word. You defined converted when you should have defined epistrepho. In addition, you need to define it in context. An English dictionary is a bad tool for defining Greek words.

 

Hi Hardsheller;

You most likely assume a lot of things especially when it comes to scripture which as I see it, is your problem. You have never offered any scriptural proof of your doctrine yet now you stand in judgement over me as if your righteous enough to do so. I do use the KJV it is my favorite version. Live with it. However this doesn't indicate that I'm KJV only. I own and use several different versions although I do not search through them to determine which one suits my preference for particular scripture as many do when confronted with something that doesn't fit there way of thinking.

If my memory serves me you disagreed with my definition and presented yours denying that mine is right. You know where you don't think that being almost persuaded is not being almost convicted. You see Conviction is a convincing it's where the word comes from of course a great Greek expert like your self should know that right. The definition of a word isn't what your answer is. Is it? What I mean, is this your proof that regeneration in fact happens before Faith? Because you still haven't proven it or offered any scripture for it's support.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Mike,

I stand amazed at your method of debate.

I have never in any of my posts claimed that regeneration happens before faith - I have not even discussed that issue at all!

The only thing I'm trying to get you to talk about at this point is the use of a Greek word and it's proper translation in the Luke passage that you brought up in the first place.

If my argument upsets you so much that you cannot debate that particular issue then we have reached an impasse and I'm perfectly content to allow you to be wrong.

 

Wrong. Jesus said that his words were life. He also said that he was The Way, The Truth, and The Life and not just another way of life. The Bible makes it clear that when we are saved, we are passed from death to life - not from one way of life to another way of life.

 

Hi TC;

I agree you're right which is why I don't understand how Calvinist can claim that we are saved before we have faith. Eph 2:8 says We are "saved by grace through faith" No faith no Grace.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

We don't all believe that. You still paint all Calvinists with the same broad brush even though you have been corrected on the matter. Not all Calvinists believe the same exact things in every detail.

 

Hi TC;

I realize probably better than you that not all Calvinist believe the same, but until they define themselves as seperate from the rest I have not misjudged them. As a whole Calvinist do believe these things or would you rather me say all Calvinism waver.
Corrected by each for there own little individual doctrines Oh Boy!
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

Wrong. Jesus said that his words were life. He also said that he was The Way, The Truth, and The Life and not just another way of life. The Bible makes it clear that when we are saved, we are passed from death to life - not from one way of life to another way of life. </font>[/QUOTE]Ya know, I don't disagree with the words you post, but I am not myopic enough to lose the "big picture". When one is "Converted" from one way of living to another, what is the picture? there are two ways of life! When one changes from Buddhist to Muslim, that is a change from one way of life to another, therefore two ways of life exist!

Now regarding the spiritual life, when one changes or is changed from the natural man, to the spiritual man, that is a change of ways of life. There are two ways of life.

Well I've touched on several ways of life, don't you agree?

 

Hi Hardsheller;

Why would you think I'm upset when it is you who will not, and no doubt, cannot answer a simple question. I'm perfectly happy in our conversation because your lack of an answer shows you believe in something that just isn't so and you can't explain it. Are you now saying that you do not believe that regeneration is before faith?
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

Mike,

Have I said that I believe that regeneration precedes faith?

Can you answer that simple question with a yes or no answer?

 

Hi Hardsheller;

Maybe I failed to see where you made a denial of this. Do you deny this?
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

Maybe I failed to see where you made a denial of this. Do you deny this?
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike </font>[/QUOTE]I have neither affirmed it or denied it. In fact I haven't discussed it with you or anyone else on this thread.

 

Hi Hardsheller;
You don't remember sending this post?

It certainly seems that you said you don't believe in the freewill choice of man. Freewill does mean that we believe that it is man who first trust in Christ before regeneration can happen.
So do you believe that man accepts Christ by faith or do you believe that he has to be regenerated first in order to have faith.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Mike, you keep asking bad questions. "Man accepts Christ by faith" and "regenerated first in order to believe" are not opposites. They are in fact descriptive of the same position. A person who believes that regeneration precedes faith still believes that man accepts Christ by faith.

Secondly, believing in the "freewill choice of man" (as you define it, not as I would) and believing that regeneration precedes faith are not the only two options. Some believe that the effectual call is an enabling work of hte Spirit that produces faith which leads to repentance. They are still Calvinists.