The Galatians fight back

Mike,

Do you even read the posts of others who try to answer you?

Why don't you talk to your pastor, maybe he can help you.

 

How is it that man can be regenerated by a power that he does not believe exists?

Please give us all the delicious details.

 

Just curious, why do you think someone has to believe in regeneration to be regenerated?

 

Where do scriptures tell you that God arbitrarily, and against a human's will, regenerates the human?

 

Hi Wes;
They don't know, that's why they won't answer that question.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

Just curious, why do you think someone has to believe in regeneration to be regenerated? </font>[/QUOTE]One reason is that the way you say it, one cannot believe until one is regenerated. While the scriptures ALL indicate that it is Belief that causes one to be regenerated. It is Belief that causes repentance, it is believe that causes FAITH, it is belief that causes behavioral changes, it is belief that brings one to acceptance, and it is belief that spawns worship.

This applies to virtually every endeavor that man is involved in, and that is why Slavery is such an ugly state of affairs, while persuasion through knowledge (enticement) is such a beautiful state of affairs. It is better to persuade one to work for you than to beat the daylights out of him for the same purpose, unless of course you take some sadistic pleasure in your "power" over another human being.

No, don't quote the old testament about God putting stuff into his people, etc. Because that does not apply under the state of Grace that we are in. God did those things to HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE, the Jews, and he had HIS PROPHETS, ALL JEWS, telling the Jews what His will for THEM was. But now, we have God the Son, the Apostles who were taught by God, and we have the teachings of the Apostles, and the Good News that was presented to the JEW who rejected it, and subsequently to the Gentiles for OUR Salvation. We have the Completed work of God for our salvation, leaving us with the responsibility to believe and be saved, or not believe and die the second death. It is our responsibility now that we have heard the Word of God to either believe or die! When we believe we are regenerated.

Now it is your turn!

 

Hello Wes. Can I have a go?

ISA 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy for it is by grace I have been saved. Praise the Lord! What a Saviour!
Delicious is right man!

AC 9:1 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"
AC 9:5 "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6 "Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

And without a by your leave sir! But that was only Paul wasn't it and you can't trust a word he says can you?

johnp.

 

How many more can you cite besides Paul?

Is there only one example of this "regeneration before belief" that you believe so staunchly?

Besides, Paul was a believer in God! Look at his upbringing and his education and you know that he believed in God. But lowly Saul thought that he was doing God a great big favor by destroying this new rebellion!

Get you facts straight before give examples like Paul as the norm for "unbelievers".

 

Wes.

One is enough for the win man! Oh! And me.

As he was you are.

Ones enough for the win man! Oh! And me.

johnp.

 

John 1:12-13 for starters ... It clearly says that they were born, not of human will, but of God's will. What else do you need?

Secondly, with respect to regeneration and belief, belief does nto cause faith or repentance. Beleif is faith, and repentance goes hand in hand with it. There is way to account for it apart from the supernatural work of God. That is the clear teaching of Scripture throughout. It has been amply demonstrated.

 

One is enough for the win man! Oh! And me.</font>[/QUOTE]No, one is not enough for the win, what you point is is ONE of God's elect! What other same scenario "regenerations" can you cite? How did it happen to YOU? How did it happen to others you know? We have written evidence of how it happened to Paul, but you cannot relate a similar experience for yourself or your believing friends now can you?

As he was you are.</font>[/QUOTE]What is that suppose to mean? Now that you have spent your one example, Paul, what OTHER evidence do you have for regeneration before belief? Are there no more? If you cannot produce more such examples then you must agree that Paul's experience with God is not the norm for mankind. Therefore regeneration before belief for man is a LIE!

Ones enough for the win man! Oh! And me.</font>[/QUOTE]Talk about Blind arrogance! This is not the lottery we're addressing. It is a core doctrine of Calvinism that has only one example to present as evidence that the doctrine applies to "all of the elect". If it applies to all the elect, then by all means you should be able to present hundreds of thousands, even millions of similar examples....Where are they?

YOU LOSE!

 

Sorry Wes to hate to deflate your self declared victory but you overlooked this reference.

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed

 

John 1:12-13 for starters ... It clearly says that they were born, not of human will, but of God's will. What else do you need?

Secondly, with respect to regeneration and belief, belief does nto cause faith or repentance. Beleif is faith, and repentance goes hand in hand with it. There is way to account for it apart from the supernatural work of God. That is the clear teaching of Scripture throughout. It has been amply demonstrated. </font>[/QUOTE]Larry in response I offer the context of what you refer to,

Keep John 17:6-20 in mind, as it applies here too!
Larry I think you missed the phrase "but to those who did accept him". Acceptance is "belief in", "received", "acknowledged", being prepared for the arrival of,...All of which occurred before the power to become the children of God! God did not regenerate those to accept Jesus. They were already looking for the Messiah because of the Word of God presented through John the Baptist. They anticipated. Those who did not accept John the Baptist's foretelling the arrival of the Messiah, are the ones who did not accept the Messiah who was among them already.

Then there is the phrase "to those who believed in his name", who were already prepared in their spirit because of the advanced notice that the Messiah would soon be here, they were ready to accept him, they had already been convinced by the Word of God sent forth before the advent of the Messiah. They were ready to believe in Him, where others who did not accept the Word of God were not! The Billy Graham crusades were always well received, because advanced word of them was sent out into the land to prepare the way.

Your second point about Regeneration says that "belief does not cause faith or repentance". If one does not believe in something, then one will never establish faith in it nor repent in their behavior or accept that which they do not believe.

If you are saying that regeneration is "preparation to believe", then regeneration is by "Hearing the word of God". 'Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God' stands true, in spite of other opinions!

The word of God (knowledge of God) works in supernatural ways in the mind of man, and it prepares the willing human spirit to receive through faith, the truth of God, which then establishes FAITH in God and therefore, Salvation thru faith BY GOD!

The Gospel message is the Milk of the word, It is the earliest and easiest to digest, and it is presented to us by God the Son in the books known as the Gospels. The meat of the word, is the rest of the New Testament, where we who believe, and who are so motivated read about the "mysteries" of heaven presented by those men who were, in whatever form, 'taken into heaven for a peak' of what it's all about. The Milk is not about lifestyle, it is about life change, the Meat of the word is about lifestyle.

 

Did you read the verses you copied? They say: who were born not from human stock or human desire or human will but from God himself. They received him because they were born of him.

Major error. You try to distinguish between faith and belief. There is no distinction. The Bible never makes it. It is one word. To believe it is to have faith in it.

This is the teaching of Calvinism. That is not our difference.

 

Define "born".

 

Are you serious? You don't know what it means to be born?

 

Yes, I do, I want your definition relative to the scriptures.

 

To be born is to be given life. Regeneration is the impartation of spiritual life to the spiritually dead. If you already knew that, then why are you asking?

 

We believe that spirit "never dies" do we not? Then what is "born of the spirit" if spirit never dies, how can spirit be reborn.

 

The answer is obvious: Man has an eternal soul that will live forever. The soul born again, or made spiritually alive, will live with God. The soul that is not born again, or is spiritually dead, will live in hell for eternity. Why do you keep confusing the issue?