The Gathering of the Church/the Rapture

Ray, I just read your post and I loved it!

That is exactly why we need to be wary of the "rapture" thing, where we are zapped out of here before the 7 years tribulation.

I know rapture is a nice warm fuzzy thing, but what happens if people who are pre-trib are wrong?

They would just keep on believing that whatever is going on is O.K. because "they're still here".

May He give revelation and wisdom to all who need it!

Working for Him.

Tam,

 

I meant the one you posted at 5:43 today, not the last one.

That is why we need to pray and study and watch whats going on in this world.

Tam

 

Glory be to God Ray. I'm glad someone was able to understand what I was attempting to get across.
Now, back to popping my gum and finding shiny things.

Eschatologist, who were you asking about the literal ending of time and our universe? I reread and didn't see it brought up or really even alluded to.
Gina

 

Ray
You explain to me why there is a necessity for the Judgment Seat of Christ? [II Corinthians 5:10 & Romans 14:10]

Who are judged at the Great White Throne Judgment?

Check my previous posts on this subject. If you really don't know the difference in these two judgments, I will assist you in answering these two questions

Im listening

 

Ray
As for goin out to buy books on the subject, i see no need.

Eccles.12[11]The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd. [12] And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. [13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. [14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Ok Ray, so your saying that verse 14 is speaking of 2 separate judgments. Why 2?

 

Yes, a number can be figurative, but first, the problem with the figurative interpretation of the millenium is not the number as much as it is how the descriptions of this period match up with present realities. (a world of peace, Satan no longer deceiving the world, etc).
Second, while those other examples are figures of innumerable amounts of things, the period between the Second Coming and the final judgment is not, but is rather a definite period of time (and as stated above, not the indefinite period of time of the ongoing Church age), so it is likely that is a literal number. Just because it could be figurative, as in other examples, doesn't mean it necessarily is. It depends on the context.

 

Ray
How many raptures(gatherings) are there?

 

Ray
Have you ever givin much thought as to why Jesus only named the commandments which deal with your interaction with man in the below scripture?

Matthew 19[16]And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? [17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. [18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, [19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

None of the commandments which deal with God himself were mentioned. I know there are many who believe these words of Christ were only true till Christ was crucified but....i believe HIS words will never pass away. There will be people at the great white throne that never even heard of Jesus Christ and there names will be written in the book of life if they kept those commandments which deal with man.

 

REV.22[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
[17] And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

And the "bride"(those which enter the 1000 yr period of rest)will be keeping all the commandments, including Gods sabbath day. Just as the WORD says in rev.22.

 

So Ray

EZEK.34 [11] For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.[12] As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.[13] And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.

If theres but 1 rapture,how does God gather the flock above. My guess is that it will be in the twinkling of an eye. You might also wanna notice the above gathering happens during the dark and cloudy day.

JOEL 2 [1] Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;[2] A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

Hmm.. The dark and cloudy day.THE DAY OF THE LORD. Hey Ray, look! A trumpet blowing. Do ya think it might be the last trumpet?

 

Hey Ray
you said
So in answer to your question there will be various bodily resurrections, but only one multiple billions and billions of saints who will ascend at the Rapture. [I Thess. 4:16]

1Thes.4:16????

1THES.4 15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1Thes.4 clouds - trumpet - voice
Zeph 1 clouds - trumpet - voice

ZEHP.1 [14] The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.[15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,[16] A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.

Well Ray, 1 Thes.4 is also the DAY of the Lord

 

Ray Berrian

I believe you may have underestimated just what I do know! You have addressed several eschatological points here so I will attempt to cover each one.

First, In 2Peter 3:10 the Greek word for elements(stoicheia) is used in only two places in the New Testament, and that being in Galatians. It did not mean the 'earthly' elements, but it meant the elemental foundations of the Jewish law(system).

So also, when we were children, we were in slavery under the basic principles(stoicheia) of the world... But now that you know God-- or rather are known by God-- how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles(stoicheia)? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?(Gal.4:3,9)

These examples are very clearly refering to the elements(principles) of the Jewish system(Law). So just as Peter had earlier stated that "the end of all things is near"(1Pet.4:7), so I believe that the ending to which he refered to that was "near" was the very ending and removal of this Jewish system. And yes it was destroyed in a fiery event, as their city, temple, documents and system met its end by the onslaught of the Roman armies, which by the way was completely destroyed with fire. Just read some of Josephus' writings concerning this event. And this destruction was prepared by God(Rom.9:22,28). Micah in his propheies about the Assyrian invasion and destruction of Israel used similar mountain melting language. Surely this was not meant to be taken literary! You can also find this similar language in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Joel and Zephaniah. If you would like I will later roll out verses in these books which clearly use this apocayptic(stars falling, sun darkening, earthquakes, etc.) imagery in terms as 'Day of the Lord,' for which its fulfillment resulted in the destruction of nations by the Assyrians, Babylonians, or the Medes and Perians. If someone would interpret these to be planet and universe ending events, then you would have to believe that God had to re-create the elements several times over!!!

Second, your reference to the "last days." There must have been several verse in scripture that have eluded your understanding. I will address some of these, then you tell me as to when the Apostles and 1st century christians believed it would occur:

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in THESE LAST DAYS he HAS SPOKEN to us BY HIS SON, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe(Heb.1:1,2; emphasis mine).

You gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days(Jam.5:3).

who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of salvation that is READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME... He was chosen before the creation of the world, but WAS REVEALED IN THESE LAST TIMES FOR YOUR SAKE(1Pet.1:5,20).

Dear children, THIS IS THE LAST HOUR: and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know IT IS THE LAST HOUR(1Jo.2:18).

In the last days, God says,I will pour out my Spirit on all people...(Acts 2:17a).

In every one of these accounts it is apparent that the time in which they spoke of the "Last Days" were in their own time. And these verses tie in to the other New Testament passages like thread in a garment. What I would love to see is what your interpretation of these might be. As for other eschatological subjects, I would love to discuss them with you in the future.