You are talking to a Post-tribber, not a pre-tribber.
However, changing the subject does not change the fact you have been incorrect in your last three posts.
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The Glorious future for Israel !
- Thread starter savedbymercy
- Start date
You are talking to a Post-tribber, not a pre-tribber.
However, changing the subject does not change the fact you have been incorrect in your last three posts.
savedbymercy
New Member
Yes, The First time He came with sin imputed to Him, so that He could deal with it once and for all at the Cross, the second time will not be for that same purpose, it will be the final salvation of His Elect, Just as Paul writes in Rom 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Don't blame you. I would not want to be called a pre-tribber either.
You are certainly entitled to be wrong; and you are! Surely you are not trying to argue that Israel is still blinded.
People are saved, one at a time, and that includes Jews. It appears you believe in a mass conversion of the Jews much like that when Constantine marched his army through a river.
Talk about historical revisionism.
I have placed the grammatical evidence before you but neither you or SBM cares to deal with it (Rom. 11:25-28 future tense state and present tense state)
Have you ever read the Pentecost account in the book of Acts? 3000 saved at once? Have you read the account in Acts 5 where only they counted the males who were saved and it was 5000 at one time in one place?
Certainly God saved each one of the 3000 individually but not isolated from the rest and the same is with the 5000 and so it will be with "ALL ISRAEL" in Romans 11:26-27
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
There you go hiding behind grammer. It does not matter how much grammer excuses you throw out, Jesus Christ is not coming from zion again, and when He does return He is not coming to take away no ones sins, that was done at the Cross [edit]
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
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I hate to tell you this but the scriptures are made up of the right use of words in the right relationship with other words or else there can be no meaningful communication and no scriptures period!
Proper exegesis and expository teaching is totally dependent upon recognizing the proper use and relationship between words.
All false doctrine is based upon exegesis of scripture and failure to recognize and restrict the interpretation within the boundaries of the grammatical and syntactical relationship of inspired words as they are placed in the inspired context of scripture.
You practice the common cultic herementuic RJP (run, jump to another text, pit scripture against scripture). That is your mode of operation and that is precisely why you teach false doctrines.
savedbymercy
New Member
You are a spiritual [edit] and attempt to use grammar over people to bully them, figuring most people do not study greek. It is the same mentality that Rome had when they would not let their followers read the scripture for themselves so they could teach their abominations, now you do the same, by elevating grammar so you can show off. But the greek is a very good tool, I studied it in Bible College for Two Years, but it is not technically needed for God to enlighten His people to Truth. God in His Providence caused the scriptures to be translated into the English for His English speaking elect, what is learned in the greek merely amplifies what is taught in the English bible, its supplemental !
So none of your vain babbling about grammar can change what Christ has already accomplished about sin Jn 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
To force Rom 11:27
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
To be a future event for a group of reprobates, is unscriptural , wresting scripture to your own destruction !
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Your eisegesis of future and present tenses is faulty!
You are drawing unwarranted conclusions. Scripture tells us:
Acts 2:41. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 4:1-4
1. And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,
2. Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
3. And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide.
4. Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.
The Scripture does not say 5000 men were saved, it says many "believed", not five thousand!
I say again: Surely you are not trying to argue that Israel is still blinded.
Don't blame others for your own ignorance! That is why Paul said "study to show yourselves approved unto God" rightly dividing the Word of Truth so that you won't be ashamed when exposed!
However, I don't need the Greek grammar to show your interpretation of Romans 3:24-5:2 is false. I pointed out the English grammar used in the KJV condemns your silly interpretations. Remember the "eth" endings in Romans 4:5-6!!!!
I pointed out simple and obvious facts that anyone capable of reading English can see that proves you don't know what you are talking about in Romans 3:24-5:2.
For example, that Paul is contrasting "justification by faith" (Rom. 3:28) with justiication "by works" which "justification by faith" is not "of works" but "without works" (Rom. 4:6) contrary to what you have been claiming.
For example, that Paul is not contrasting "justification by grace" to "justification by works" in Romans 3:24-5:2 as you claim, which is obvious to anyone who can read as "justification by faith" is inclusive of "justification by grace" (Rom. 3:24-28) as anyone who can read English can obviously see.
For example, that Romans 4:5-6 is defined in present tenses ("eth") proving that the "ungodly" man is not justified apart from "believeth" and "imputeth" as you keep asserting!
Romans 3:24-5:2 so completely exposes your false doctrines and interpretations that only a third grade reading skill is necessary to see that!
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
I am not blaming anyone, just exposing you for the bully you are. All that ranting and raving about the grammer has not changed one Truth. There is no coming of Christ from zion to take away anyone's sin. That foolishness is a personal attack on the Finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ when He made an end to sin for His People ! Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
I am not blaming anyone, just exposing you for the bully you are. All that ranting and raving about the grammer has not changed one Truth. There is no coming of Christ from zion to take away anyone's sin. That foolishness is a personal attack on the Finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ when He made an end to sin for His People ! Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
at this present time, in this Age of grace/dispenasation...
God has allowed events to go on, due to the fact that 'right now' the whole world system lies in grip of the Evil one, that this earths systems are under his permitted functioning...
So NO, the Lord is NOT having His will being done in same sense as in heaven, His PERFECT will...
THAT will change when He sets up the etrnal Kingdom of his Son yeshua at his second coming, and at THAT time will the rule/reign as God fully intended it to be will be established!
so what did ALL of the Aposotles mean when they wrote that one MUST place faith in jesus in order to be saved?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
We have been in the age of Grace since Adam and Eve sinned!!!:smilewinkgrin:
And God is Sovereign!
NOT in the new Covenant era of grace though until the coming of Christ the Messiah!
And God is sovereign, its that just He has during this era permitted/allowed thing to be doneNOT in His perfect Will, but that will getrectified at the Second Coming!
savedbymercy
New Member
A Future Salvation Hope for ethnic jews is a false gospel !
Those who are preaching a future salvation for the ethnic jews are preaching another gospel. There is only One Gospel, and One Gospel Hope Col 1:5
For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
This is the Hope Abraham,Isaac,m and Jacob had Heb 11:8-10,13-16
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
This is the same Hope of the Gospel as in Col 1:5, then we have Col 1:23
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
In the greek it reads :apo thv elpidov tou euaggeliou ou hkousate,
We have the definite Article before Hope and before Gospel, in other words, there is only One Hope and One Gospel !
Eph 4:4 tells us of only One Hope Eph 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
The Twelve Tribes has the same Hope Acts 26:7
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
Here Paul uses the word Promise and Hope, which both denote the Gospel. The promise of the Gospel Eph 3:6
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
What same Body ? This One Eph 4:4
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Now those of you who are preaching a future hope for ethnic jews, you preach another hope, another Gospel, and guess what ? Gal 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Those who are preaching a future salvation for the ethnic jews are preaching another gospel. There is only One Gospel, and One Gospel Hope Col 1:5
For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
This is the Hope Abraham,Isaac,m and Jacob had Heb 11:8-10,13-16
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
This is the same Hope of the Gospel as in Col 1:5, then we have Col 1:23
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
In the greek it reads :apo thv elpidov tou euaggeliou ou hkousate,
We have the definite Article before Hope and before Gospel, in other words, there is only One Hope and One Gospel !
Eph 4:4 tells us of only One Hope Eph 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
The Twelve Tribes has the same Hope Acts 26:7
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
Here Paul uses the word Promise and Hope, which both denote the Gospel. The promise of the Gospel Eph 3:6
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
What same Body ? This One Eph 4:4
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Now those of you who are preaching a future hope for ethnic jews, you preach another hope, another Gospel, and guess what ? Gal 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
savedbymercy
New Member
Continuing the thought from post 41 on Ezk 37
Next Promise : They shall dwell in the Land given unto Jacob forever !
Ezk 37:25
25And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
What Land is this ? Is this the piece of dirt over in the middle east ? No its not. This is the land that God promised Abraham of which Isaac and Jacob were heirs of the same promise !
Heb 11:8-10
8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
The Land these Heirs looked for was a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God, not men..
Also about this land we read in Heb 11:13-16
13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off[by Faith], and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
The Land was a heavenly Land, not of this earth..It was the possession of the everlasting Canaan Gen 17:8
8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
This is the Eternal state here Matt 8:11
11And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Yes, the Land is the Kingdom of heaven. Many from the east and west shall sit down with them. Thats because they too shall be gathered from the east and the west as predicted here:
Ezk 37:21
21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
Every side denotes the east and the west too..
Isa 43:5
Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
Gal 3:29
29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Those who belong to Christ are heirs of the same promise that Abraham, Issac and Jacob was here Heb 11:9
9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
The Land is the Kingdom of Heaven, not palestine in the middle east..
Now can this apply to believers in Christ, the seed of Abraham ? Yes it can and it does..
Next Promise : They shall dwell in the Land given unto Jacob forever !
Ezk 37:25
25And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
What Land is this ? Is this the piece of dirt over in the middle east ? No its not. This is the land that God promised Abraham of which Isaac and Jacob were heirs of the same promise !
Heb 11:8-10
8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
The Land these Heirs looked for was a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God, not men..
Also about this land we read in Heb 11:13-16
13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off[by Faith], and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
The Land was a heavenly Land, not of this earth..It was the possession of the everlasting Canaan Gen 17:8
8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
This is the Eternal state here Matt 8:11
11And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Yes, the Land is the Kingdom of heaven. Many from the east and west shall sit down with them. Thats because they too shall be gathered from the east and the west as predicted here:
Ezk 37:21
21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
Every side denotes the east and the west too..
Isa 43:5
Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
Gal 3:29
29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Those who belong to Christ are heirs of the same promise that Abraham, Issac and Jacob was here Heb 11:9
9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
The Land is the Kingdom of Heaven, not palestine in the middle east..
Now can this apply to believers in Christ, the seed of Abraham ? Yes it can and it does..
savedbymercy
New Member
God will dwell in their midst forever !
Ezk 37:28
28And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
1 Thess 4:17
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 21:23
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
All that has been prophesied in Ezk 37 :21ff can be fulfilled in all believers in Christ..The Church, The seed of Abraham..
Ezk 37:28
28And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
1 Thess 4:17
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 21:23
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
All that has been prophesied in Ezk 37 :21ff can be fulfilled in all believers in Christ..The Church, The seed of Abraham..
savedbymercy
New Member
I have just shown how a OT Prophecy pertaining to the children of Israel in Ezk 37, can and does apply to the Church, The Spiritual seed of Abraham, which is Israel. The Seed of Abraham is another way of saying Israel isa 41:8
But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
And both Christ Gal 3:16 and believers Gal 3:29 are called the seed of Abraham, so both are Israel..
I will now by the grace of God show forth, even though its not understood by the masses in organized religion today, that the Church is one continuity in the OT and NT, that the NT Church is the Fulfillment of the Old Testament Prophecy concerning Israel [seed of Abraham]; So the promises concerning the promised Kingdom/land is to be understood spiritually and not naturally..
Peter assures us the prophecies of old was concerning the grace that would be unto us the Church, even though the name Israel was in used.. 1 Pet 1:10
Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
The prophets just saw the grace coming to Israel, Gods chosen covenant people..which it did, but it was just not to ethnic jews, but to jews and gentiles in Christ...
But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
And both Christ Gal 3:16 and believers Gal 3:29 are called the seed of Abraham, so both are Israel..
I will now by the grace of God show forth, even though its not understood by the masses in organized religion today, that the Church is one continuity in the OT and NT, that the NT Church is the Fulfillment of the Old Testament Prophecy concerning Israel [seed of Abraham]; So the promises concerning the promised Kingdom/land is to be understood spiritually and not naturally..
Peter assures us the prophecies of old was concerning the grace that would be unto us the Church, even though the name Israel was in used.. 1 Pet 1:10
Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
The prophets just saw the grace coming to Israel, Gods chosen covenant people..which it did, but it was just not to ethnic jews, but to jews and gentiles in Christ...