The Glorious "Gospel of Election"

[scotthines]

Hi Virginia;
I know he was a chosen vessel for the Gentiles, but he also was one of the elect according to Calvinist, so when was he chosen and was he one of the elect while he was guilty of murder? Also, Paul did not receive the Holy Ghost until Aninias laid hands on him.

I wonder "when" he was "chosen". It makes a lot of difference when God chose him to me.

BBob

Bob,

For those God Forenew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And for those he predestined, he also CALLED, and for those he CALLED, he also JUSTIFIED; and for those he JUSTIFIED, he also GLORIFIED. Romans 8:29-30

but lets not take that out of context in any way lets look at the verse before these.
And we know that ALL things work for the good of those who love God, who have been CALLED according to HIS(GODS) pourpose. romans 8:28

yeah God elected him even before he was a murder. even before the foundations of the world. We are here at Gods pleasure not our own.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob,

For those God Forenew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And for those he predestined, he also CALLED, and for those he CALLED, he also justified; and for those he justified, he also glorified. Romans 8:29-30

but lets not take that out of context in any way lets look at the verse before these.
And we know that ALL things work for the good of those who love God, who have been CALLED according to HIS(GODS) pourpose. romans 8:28

yeah God elected him even before he was a murder. even before the foundations of the world. We are here at Gods pleasure not our own.

God is Omnipresence and can see and know all things at once. What would fore mean to God when He sees the end the same time He sees the beginning. God know when you will die, how you will die. You know how? He has already seen it. God also knows who will believe the same time He predestinates them to be conformed to the image of His Son, He knows now, the end and the beginning who will believe and knows who to justify, and glorify.

Foreknow and foreknown and time is all for men. Before the earth was created there was no time and when the end comes, there will not be time any more, so because God Foreknows, means nothing for it is exactly the same as when you believe.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

The Bible speaks of a book of the Lamb where all the names of the redeemed were listed before the foundation of the world. I believe that. The Bible speaks of God's chosen/elect. The Bible speaks of man's responsibility to repent and believe. I believe man has his own will. I believe all those things. God has been working out His eternal plan since He spoke everything into existence. How He does this, I don't know. If that makes me a Calvinist, then I guess I am. But I have never read one single word of John Calvin, so I can't really tell you what he taught.

I have also recently started studying the KJV for the first time in my life. :laugh: I see it all as growing and learning.

Hope I made sense.

You are so right though,
Romans; 11:
33: O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

You should of started with the KJV..........
What is the foundation of the world? You do know that God is our all in all don't you. He can see who believes when they believe the same time He created all things. God looks and sees all at once. So, fore is nothing to God and pre- is nothing to God for it is all at once to Him. That is the trouble of trying to know the mind of God.

Predestination is nothing to be all messed up over for God knows who to predestinate, for He sees you believe the same time He predestinates you to be conformed to the image of His Son, He sees you justified by the blood of His Son, the same time He predestinates you, He sees you glorified the same time He glorifies you. The Pre and Fore is for men and time of which God is outside of time. He can work in time if He likes, it belongs to Him, but God don't need time. We do, but He does not.

BTW, He has already seen you resurrected.

If God is Omniscience, what is predestination to Him?

If God is Omnipresence, what is it to Him to be able to see you believe, if He can see you in your mother's womb?

We go to extreme when we think when God predestinates something, then He has to wait to see it happen. He sees and knows all.

Also, He gave all men a chance to be redeemed if they would only "believe". The whole Bible is on Believe, Faith in God.

Eph 1:13In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

BBob,

 

[scotthines]

[
Foreknow and foreknown and time is all for men. Before the earth was created there was no time and when the end comes, there will not be time any more, so because God Foreknows, means nothing for it is exactly the same as when you believe.

BBob,[/QUOTE]


Dear Bob,

it seems to me that you just said was that the word foreknow is a pointles word that was accidently put in the bible to trip us up.well I tripped I actualy believed that foreknew meant
Main Entry: fore·know
Pronunciation: \(ˌ)fȯr-ˈnō\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): fore·knew \-ˈnü, -ˈnyü\; fore·known \-ˈnōn\; fore·know·ing
: to have previous knowledge of : know beforehand especially by paranormal means or by revelation
synonyms see foresee

thank you for correcting me.

 

[Brother Bob]

[
Foreknow and foreknown and time is all for men. Before the earth was created there was no time and when the end comes, there will not be time any more, so because God Foreknows, means nothing for it is exactly the same as when you believe.

BBob,

Dear Bob,

it seems to me that you just said was that the word foreknow is a pointles word that was accidently put in the bible to trip us up.well I tripped I actualy believed that foreknew meant
Main Entry: fore·know
Pronunciation: \(ˌ)fȯr-ˈnō\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): fore·knew \-ˈnü, -ˈnyü\; fore·known \-ˈnōn\; fore·know·ing
: to have previous knowledge of : know beforehand especially by paranormal means or by revelation
synonyms see foresee

thank you for correcting me.

I think I sense some sarcasm there, but what you just posted is for men, not God!! God foreknew before you did, but the point is that God knew all the time. He didn't have to "foreknow".

You said He foreknew, well do you think He knew it when he foreknew it??

You do believe that God is Ominisience, and Ominipresent, don't you??

BBob,

 

[scotthines]

Bob,

I believe that these words have been best chosen from interpitation of there native languages so the words are literal interpitations of the original letters. If you make a word mean whatever you want it to mean then what have you done to Gods word. There are clear definitions to these words weather you agree with them or not they are what they are. I apologize if i seemed critical. There are many things in teh bible that i dont clame to know but if God says it is so then it is so. He chose to use teh word Foreknow and there is a clear definition it is not a pointles word or it would not have been in the Bible.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob,

I believe that these words have been best chosen from interpitation of there native languages so the words are literal interpitations of the original letters. If you make a word mean whatever you want it to mean then what have you done to Gods word. There are clear definitions to these words weather you agree with them or not they are what they are. I apologize if i seemed critical. There are many things in teh bible that i dont clame to know but if God says it is so then it is so. He chose to use teh word Foreknow and there is a clear definition it is not a pointles word or it would not have been in the Bible.

I never said it was pointless, I said it was for men, not God.

A simple answer is "Do you think God knew it, when He foreknew it?? Do you think God had to wait one second or 6000 years to foreknow it, when He already knew it??

If God "knew" it before the foundation of the world, then why would God have to "foreknow it", is all I am asking???

BBob,

 

[scotthines]

If God "knew" it before the foundation of the world, then why would God have to "foreknow it", is all I am asking???

BBob,[/QUOTE]

Becouse he knew it before it was known. it was known when it came to pass and God knew it BEFORE that, there for he foreknew. to know something ahead of time. It was only known by us when/after it happened. It was known to God before the foundation(which would be before time). to foreknow.

you said "so because God Foreknows, means nothing for it is exactly the same as when you believe." If it means nothing then it is pointless or am i misunderstanding you.

 

[Brother Bob]

If God "knew" it before the foundation of the world, then why would God have to "foreknow it", is all I am asking???

BBob,

Becouse he knew it before it was known. it was known when it came to pass and God knew it BEFORE that, there for he foreknew. to know something ahead of time. It was only known by us when/after it happened. It was known to God before the foundation(which would be before time). to foreknow.

you said "so because God Foreknows, means nothing for it is exactly the same as when you believe." If it means nothing then it is pointless or am i misunderstanding you.[/quote]
I said to God it has not meaning for as you have just said, God "knew" it. Now he did fore know it before we did, but the point is that the same time God knew it, which was in the beginning, He also knew who believed and who did not. So, when he predestinates it is because of "belief" and not some unknown reason. After you have "believed" then are ye sealed with the spirit of the Holy promise. Also, what He predestinates is that the believer will be conformed to the image of His Son, the believer will be justified, the believer will be glorified.

BBob,

It is the believer who will reap eternal life.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

BBob,

 

[scotthines]

We are Gods elect becouse we have accepted Christ as our Savior. God knew before the foundation of the earth who woulD and who would not. If he did not already know (foreknow) then he would not be Sovereign. The only way we can accept God is if he chooses to let us accept him. No one deserves salvation. as a matter of fact we all deserve hell. For God to allow some to go to heaven and for some not to go to heaven does seem crule and inhumane, but God is not man. His ways are higher than our ways. if God chooses or "elects" salvation to some and not others he is Sovereign. He is God and it is to his glory not mans.


romans 9:6-23
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of ELECTION might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, [1] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then HE has mercy on whomever HE wills, and HE hardens whomever HE wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does HE still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—

God alone is Sovereign

 

[Brother Bob]

We are Gods elect becouse we have accepted Christ as our Savior. God knew before the foundation of the earth who woul dand who would not. If he did not already know (foreknow) then he would not be Sovereign. The only way we can accept God is if he chooses to let us accept him. No one deserves salvation. as a matter of fact we all deserve hell. For God to allow some to go to heaven and for some not to go to heaven does seem crule and inhumane, but God is not man. His ways are higher than our ways. if God chooses or "elects" salvation to some and not others he is Sovereign. He is God and it is to his glory not mans.
romans 9:6-23
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of ELECTION might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, [1] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then HE has mercy on whomever HE wills, and HE hardens whomever HE wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does HE still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—

God alone is Sovereign

Lev 19:15 ¶ Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: [but] in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Isa 45:22Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else.

Yes, He will have mercy on the "believer".

BBob,