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The Glorious "Gospel of Election"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by skypair, Dec 26, 2007.

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  1. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    So when the bible says that Jesus' blood cleanses us from all sin, it didn't really mean ALL? :BangHead:

    You guys want all to mean all, except when it doesn't fit your theology?

    And you accuse us of that? :BangHead:
     
    #201 reformedbeliever, Jan 11, 2008
  2. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Make of it what you will, here's the thing ---- ALL the lost will be taken out of hell, given bodies, and appear in heaven to face judgment for what they did with Christ/God/the Spirit. So at the point of arriving at the GWT, no sin is imputed to them.

    It is the "book of life" that determines their destiny as you yourself can read in Rev 21. They omitted one thing in life --- to believe on Christ/God/Spirit. They will believe the "law" there and sin be imputed at that time.

    Is that clearer for you?

    skypair
     
    #202 skypair, Jan 11, 2008
  3. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Variously --- I have heard it preached, run across it in scripture, etc. It would probably be more profitable for you to investigate the issue than to investigate me, however.
     
    #203 skypair, Jan 11, 2008
  4. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    No, its not clear at all. What is clear is that IMO dispensationalism has to forget hermeneutics and do gymnastics to come to that system of eschatology.

    I just wanted to point out that you don't believe all means all. :)
     
    #204 reformedbeliever, Jan 11, 2008
  5. Virginia ORB

    Virginia ORB Member
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    Eph. 2:8-10: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is a gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”

    If you say this scripture is referring to something other than spiritual salvation, what then, is Paul talking about?
     
    #205 Virginia ORB, Jan 11, 2008
  6. KSeeker

    KSeeker New Member

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    I'm sorry i was unclear. I was using Eph as a reference to the fact that we are saved by grace through faith, and not by works. I was referring to the previous scripture that was being discussed.
     
    #206 KSeeker, Jan 11, 2008
  7. KSeeker

    KSeeker New Member

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    I believe that ALL is ALL...I'm the only one that is taking scripture as is, so it appears.
     
    #207 KSeeker, Jan 11, 2008
  8. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    You believe all is all? Then the sin of blasphemy has been attoned for?
    That seems to go against scripture, if we take scripture as it is.
     
    #208 reformedbeliever, Jan 11, 2008
  9. KSeeker

    KSeeker New Member

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    The sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable for this age and for the age to come. The verse suggests nothing of ETERNITY.
    Ref. Matthew 12:32
     
    #209 KSeeker, Jan 11, 2008
  10. Virginia ORB

    Virginia ORB Member
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    King James version:
    Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

    What is the world to come? Jesus was indeed talking about eternity.
     
    #210 Virginia ORB, Jan 11, 2008
  11. KSeeker

    KSeeker New Member

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    You cannot just assume that He is speaking of eternity. I believe the literal translation of the word world is age. So, what is the age to come? Do we jump from this present age to eternity? The Bible speaks in many places of a coming age that will last 1000 years. Christ will rule and reign over the earth for that age, then He will deliver the kingdom unto His Father, so that God may be all in all. I see clearly that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven man in this age or the Millennial Age. The verse does not say that it cannot be forgiven after the Millennial Age.
     
    #211 KSeeker, Jan 11, 2008
  12. Virginia ORB

    Virginia ORB Member
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    Matt. 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

    Matt. 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    Is everlasting not everlasting? Is everlasting temporal? How do you explain these verses? IMO, everlasting means eternity.
     
    #212 Virginia ORB, Jan 11, 2008
  13. KSeeker

    KSeeker New Member

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    Also, a literal translation of the word everlasting is AGElasting.
     
    #213 KSeeker, Jan 11, 2008
  14. Virginia ORB

    Virginia ORB Member
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    Some translate it as this, others do not. I tend to agree with the latter.
     
    #214 Virginia ORB, Jan 11, 2008
  15. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    All means all, and some part of the time, and part some of the time, and the whole as determined by context.

    bro. Dallas:wavey:
     
    #215 Frogman, Jan 11, 2008
  16. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Let me try to "untangle" this in the light of Rom 5:1-2 (another thread). "Grace" is NOT eternal life. Eternal life is granted JUDICIALLY on account of Christ whereas grace is given unmerited in this life.

    IOW, grace is given daily -- salvation, once forever.

    Also, grace consists of the gifts we receive daily -- faith, Holy Spirit, etc. -- in this life.

    So let's go back to Eph 2:8-9:
    We are daily saved by grace on account of our original faith in Christ which was GIVEN us after we believed and repented toward God.

    Obviously, you cannot give yourself daily grace in this life.

    This is what shows us the daily application of grace to this life we live "in Christ." Our "walk" -- NOT our salvation -- was PREDESTINED by God. Most everyone who uses this passage equates "grace" to "salvation." NO. It is only part of salvation -- the life of Christ part, not the death of Christ part, Rom 5:10! Read it youself:

    "... we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." ------ IOW, by grace daily!

    So as far as Eph 2:8-9, it assumes that those who receive grace are already saved and so further teaches that their "election" was to "grace" and "walk" and "good works."

    skypair
     
    #216 skypair, Jan 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2008
  17. scotthines

    scotthines New Member

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    Was Adam not elected by God to be the first man, did Noah seek God to save him from the flood ,or did God ELECT Noah. Did God not CHOOSE Abraham. Were the Isralites not GODS ELECT. Did God not have Samuel have Jessie get the son out of the field. You know, the one not in the lineup...David...did God not ELECT him. Did Jesus not HAND PICK his diciples, were they not ELECTED. Was John the Baptist not Elected by God to go before Jesus. Is God not Sovereign. What if Judas had free will. He would have certianly choosen Jesus, Jesus would not have died on the cross and the scriptures would not have been fulfilled...there would be no salvation for us... How pompus must we look in the eyes of God to think that we can even breath without GOD alowing it to happen.

    Thank you God for choosing me.
     
    #217 scotthines, Jan 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2008
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Yep, even Judas was "elected" :)
    You're right...he did have free will...and didn't choose Christ. According to you, though, he was elected to hell.

    Let's not forget Pharaoh, too. He was most definately "elected" by God.
     
    #218 webdog, Jan 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2008
  19. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I ran across this quote today accidentally by Charles Spurgeon.

    I think it sums it up.
     
    #219 Amy.G, Jan 14, 2008
  20. AAA

    AAA New Member

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    no other gosple! Only the gosple of JESUS Christ!

    May I point out that the "Gosple of election" is better known in the bible to be called "the gosple of Christ" and it is based on what Christ did on the cross and the work (Not our works, but all HIS works) that GOD does to bring us to salvation through the BLOOD of JESUS...It says in Hebrews "without the shedding of BLOOD there are no remission of sin". Ths "Gosple of Christ" is CHRIST CENTERED...

    Look at ROM. 10:9-11...

    Another verse says somthing like: "Believe on the LORD JESUS and thou shalt be saved."

    The gosple of the Armninian is SELF-CENTERED, not Christ centered!

    May we all believe in the ONLY gosple found in the bible, this gosple is the GOSPLE of the LORD JESUS Christ....
     
    #220 AAA, Jan 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2008
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