The Glorious "Gospel of Election"

Its time to get a new hammer sky.

 

One of these days these Calvinist will understand that "All" means all the world. They will also understand that mans will is what inhibits all from being saved. We are not robots. Do you know how we will know when they understand this? They will be out on the streets, in the highways and biways, witnessing to the "whosoever will come". This is why the SBC is going calvanistic. They don't want to go as God commanded.

 

Hello PK,

Lets look at what you said above.

"All" takes on the meaning of the context, as all other words do. If I tell my family, "all of us is going out to eat"...this is not talking about the whole world. In fact, if others were standing there with my family, I could still say "all of us is going out to eat" and still not be talking about the others outside my family. All can mean many things.

Lets take the verse..."For God so loved the world..."

This has been used my many, to say it is saying God loves all of mankind. They see it no other way. They then change the meaning of other verses that shows clearly that God does hate when He chooses to do so. This is based on how they read John 3:16. Again we are talking about the word LOVE here. Can God love the world and not love each person?

We do this all the time as humans, so why can God not do it? Like I may say..."I love sports" and mean it. I may later say ..."I hate hunting". Hunting is a sport. Does this mean i lied? No...of course not.

I can say "I love food"...and also say "I hate green peas"...both are true statements.

Therefore it is easy to see that God can indeed say I love the world, and I hate some. There is no need to change the meaning of the Bible, for both is true.

You said..

I along with ALL calvinist believe this now. We call it the big T.

You said...

I believe this now as well as most Calvinist. You think because God is in control that we are robots...comes only from Calvinist haters and Hypers.

YOU said...

I witness now. I ask others to come to Christ nearly everyday. I write a colunm that goes into 100,000 homes...not a "church based newspaper"...just a hometown paper. I have to believe that most of my readers are not believers. I ask in most columns for readers to come to Christ. Name me a church that reaches 100,000 homes. They are few. It is not I, but God that gave me this column. I must do His work though it.

I also teach and witness to others outside of church. This I say not in pride, but for you to claim Calvinist do not witness is shameful. Do you not know the history of missions??? Was it not founded my Calvinist?

Look at Livingston, Carey, Edwards....did they not witness? Were they not Calvinist? You need to leave your hate at the door for brothers in Christ, and not think so highly of yourself as a better believer my friend.

Even John Calvin proved himself to be genuinely concerned for the spread of the true gospel as he should be. Under Calvin's leadership, Geneva became the hub of a vast missionary enterprise.

Calvin says...

You said...

That is a out right lie and you need to ask forgiveness for slamming brothers in Christ.

History will prove you wrong many times over. I waste no time on this, but tell you you have been mislead in many things.

 

We don't change the verses, we filter it through the whole of Scripture and interpret it in context.

...and here is the flaw again that hate means the opposite of love. I would have thought you would have gotten it by now.

What James is accusing non calvinists of doing is what he is doing himself...interpreting John 3:16 through the Scripture he so chooses.

 

Please show me scripture that "all the world" does not mean everyone in the world.

So if I were part of your family I would not be eating tonight?

 

Lets face it PK. It is clear no matter what is posted from the Bible, you will believe as you have been programed.

But nonetheless.... this is but a simple test.

This tax did not include China

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/guide03/part12.html

.notice this passage...144,000...another sealed group ...and marked in their foreheads....and not part of "all the world" found in Rev 13

YOU ASKED......

it all depends on the context, and being that you are not here with me, how could we know?

let me ask you this....

If I said......."I saw a bat"

What kind of bat did I see? Was it a bat that flies, or a bat that hits fly balls?

 

Who else but God changes the hearts of men? Do men change their own hearts? It seems scripture says they are not able to understand spiritual things in their fallen state, so how can they change their own hearts?

I don't hold that "election is the first cause of salvation", so everything else you said doesn't apply to me.

I see the drawing/convicting work of Holy Spirit as a separate work from the indwelling of Holy Spirit. I see the indwelling of Holy Spirit as something that comes with faith.

We already spoke of this. I don't see the "first cause" of salvation as "election", so everything else doesn't apply.

I understand and disagree. I believe man is a 2-part being, spirit and flesh. The "soul" is sometimes used interchangeably with "spirit", and sometimes to refer to the entire person/self.

If you believe "all" are drawn, can you explain how many millions, even 100's of millions of people who lived and died without ever hearing the gospel?

Surely, even today, people live and die without hearing the gospel.

Since God declared the preaching of the gospel to be the method that He, God, in His wisdom, decided to use to bring people to salvation,(I Cor 1:21) how is it that "all" heard the gospel, when there is no evidence whatsoever of the gospel being preached in North American, South American, Australian continents until many hundreds of years after the death and resurrection of Christ?

Surely, scripture tells us it took many decades for the gospel to leave Judea. Did no one die on the European, Asian continents during that 30-40 year period? How did they hear the gospel and therefore were "drawn" by Holy Spirit to believe the truth found therein? Why is there no evidence found in these cultures, in those time periods, of the gospel of Christ being preached?

The fault lies not in your motives (which I consider to be a sincere and heartfelt attempt, by a true believer, to explain these doctrines), but in your methods of exegesis.

Which brings us back to the first thing said in this post. Who can change the hearts of men?

What made the difference, skypair? Was it something inside of you that made the difference in your life? Or was it something God did that made the difference in your life?

Did God change your heart, or did you change your heart of your own "free-will"?

peace to youraying:

 

I have several friends at church that claim that "all" have heard the gospel. I've tried to explain that can't be possible, but they will have none of it. I don't understand how they can believe that.

 

This is all based on the presupposition that all have not had the opportunity to respond. God's Law is written on the hearts of all men, and also the desire to live forever and not die. I don't know of one person who hasn't wondered "what is the point of life...why am I here"?

Who proclaimed the Gospel from Rev. 14:6 and to Saul on the road to Tarsus?

 

All have the truth presented to them. It is what is done with that truth that matters and condemns. If no truth is presented, no condemnation can be made. Even the calvinist believes those who perish reject Christ, so how can one not know the truth...but still reject it

 

Luther held onto alot of RCC error.

The truth is the belief or disbelief of election or the process of election would have no effect whatsoever on one's condition.


The most beautiful difference between C/A is that all who believe their choice is what set them apart from other sinners were also elected just as much as anyone who believes God chose them. :thumbs:

bro. Dallas:wavey:

 

If by truth you mean creation and acknowledgment that there is a creator and the inner conscience, yes. But not everyone has heard the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not everyone is aware of their need for a Savior.

 

Because the truth found in the alternative is too hard for them to accept.

God's plan to bring salvation to men through the preaching of the gospel that started in a little "nothing" of a province of the Roman empire, meant that many would never hear the good news of Christ during their lifetimes.

That is hard to hear and accept as truth, but it is truth nevertheless. If the "rocks cried out" as Christ told us they could, then there would be some kind of evidence in those cultures, during that time. There is none, concerning Christ and His gospel (despite the claims of the Mormans).

peace to youraying:

 

We are not speaking of God's Law written on their hearts, which Romans 1 tells us brought no one to salvation. We are speaking specifically of the "message preached" that Paul refered to in I Cor. 1:21, which is Christ and Him crucified. That is the saving message, which God, in His wisdom, has determined to use to bring salvation to men.

If angels or Christ, Himself, spoke the gospel to the people of these continents, there would be some evidence of it....or do you believe the gospel went out to these peoples in vain?

We have evidence in the secular documents of the Romans and others as the gosple spread. The spread of the gospel in the Roman empire can be tracked fairly accurately through secular records.

peace to youraying:

 

dead spots?

do you mean there are places in the world TBN is not transmitting?:laugh:

bro. Dallas:wavey:

 

Also, why would Paul say this:

Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

If the gospel is not necessary, we don't need missions.

 

Yeah. My house! :laugh: