"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers"

[DHK]

Patently false view mon ami. I know Who I serve and when I get confronted by Satan, I let Him do my fighting for me. I can not defeat Satan by myself. I know this.I have tried and failed miserably. That is why I call upon Him to help me. I know how strong Satan is and he's much stronger than I. However, God is much more stronger than Satan, and He defeats him every time. By the way, we're giving Satan too much power here. We say that we're always confronted by Satan, but Satan is not omniscience like God. He does have his minions who confront us. But when we say Satan has given us a rough time, it really is one of his servants.

It seems like we have come a long way. You have agreed with me on more points than disagreed.

Here is the only point of real disagreement:

Those who believe they cannot be deceived by Satan, believe they cannot be blinded by the wiles of Satan as Eve was, are just that much more deceived in the walk in which they are now walking and are only preparing themselves for a drastic spiritual downfall.

I want to quote to you a hymn, that you are probably familiar with, and then the writer that you may not be familiar with and see what you think.

This is my Father’s world, and to my listening ears
All nature sings, and round me rings the music of the spheres.
This is my Father’s world: I rest me in the thought
Of rocks and trees, of skies and seas;
His hand the wonders wrought.

This is my Father’s world, the birds their carols raise,
The morning light, the lily white, declare their Maker’s praise.
This is my Father’s world: He shines in all that’s fair;
In the rustling grass I hear Him pass;
He speaks to me everywhere.

This is my Father’s world. O let me ne’er forget
That though the wrong seems oft so strong, God is the ruler yet.
This is my Father’s world: the battle is not done:
Jesus Who died shall be satisfied,
And earth and Heav’n be one.

And there are more verses.
--You would be in agreement, right?

In fact one of the verses speaks of him as King:
This is my Father’s world, should my heart be ever sad?
The lord is King—let the heavens ring. God reigns—let the earth be glad.
This is my Father’s world. Now closer to Heaven bound,
For dear to God is the earth Christ trod.
No place but is holy ground.

The author of the hymn was Maltbie Davenport Babcock, a Presbyterian pastor and hymn writer who lived 1858-1901.
From Wikipedia:
Upon receiving his degree in theology in 1882, Babcock became pastor of a church at Lockport, New York. He was described as having "an unusually brilliant intellect and stirring oratorical powers that commanded admiration, [that] won for him a foremost place among the favorites of his denomination".
"Babcock was preeminently a preacher. He was a clear thinker and a fluent speaker, with a marvelous personal magnetism which appealed to all classes of people, and the influence of which became in a sense national..."

In conclusion, when it speaks of his legacy, the article says:
Babcock died at age 42 in Naples, Italy, on May 18, 1901, returning from a trip to the Holy Land. According to a New York Times report of May 20, 1901, he committed suicide by slitting his wrist and ingesting "corrosive sublimate" or mercuric chloride.

Why would a man who would write such beautiful hymns praising God, adoring him as Lord and King of this world, be so depressed as to commit suicide at such a young age?

I don't know, and it is only conjecture. Is it possible that in considering that this "is His Father's world," he did not consider Satan the god of this world, and thus became so depressed with the wickedness because he couldn't look at the reality of evil caused by sin and promoted by Satan, the god of this world. Maybe.
I don't know; just some thoughts to ponder.

 

[Internet Theologian]

It seems like we have come a long way. You have agreed with me on more points than disagreed.

Here is the only point of real disagreement:


I want to quote to you a hymn, that you are probably familiar with, and then the writer that you may not be familiar with and see what you think.

This is my Father’s world, and to my listening ears
All nature sings, and round me rings the music of the spheres.
This is my Father’s world: I rest me in the thought
Of rocks and trees, of skies and seas;
His hand the wonders wrought.

This is my Father’s world, the birds their carols raise,
The morning light, the lily white, declare their Maker’s praise.
This is my Father’s world: He shines in all that’s fair;
In the rustling grass I hear Him pass;
He speaks to me everywhere.

This is my Father’s world. O let me ne’er forget
That though the wrong seems oft so strong, God is the ruler yet.
This is my Father’s world: the battle is not done:
Jesus Who died shall be satisfied,
And earth and Heav’n be one.

And there are more verses.
--You would be in agreement, right?

In fact one of the verses speaks of him as King:
This is my Father’s world, should my heart be ever sad?
The lord is King—let the heavens ring. God reigns—let the earth be glad.
This is my Father’s world. Now closer to Heaven bound,
For dear to God is the earth Christ trod.
No place but is holy ground.

The author of the hymn was Maltbie Davenport Babcock, a Presbyterian pastor and hymn writer who lived 1858-1901.
From Wikipedia:
Upon receiving his degree in theology in 1882, Babcock became pastor of a church at Lockport, New York. He was described as having "an unusually brilliant intellect and stirring oratorical powers that commanded admiration, [that] won for him a foremost place among the favorites of his denomination".
"Babcock was preeminently a preacher. He was a clear thinker and a fluent speaker, with a marvelous personal magnetism which appealed to all classes of people, and the influence of which became in a sense national..."

In conclusion, when it speaks of his legacy, the article says:
Babcock died at age 42 in Naples, Italy, on May 18, 1901, returning from a trip to the Holy Land. According to a New York Times report of May 20, 1901, he committed suicide by slitting his wrist and ingesting "corrosive sublimate" or mercuric chloride.

Why would a man who would write such beautiful hymns praising God, adoring him as Lord and King of this world, be so depressed as to commit suicide at such a young age?

I don't know, and it is only conjecture. Is it possible that in considering that this "is His Father's world," he did not consider Satan the god of this world, and thus became so depressed with the wickedness because he couldn't look at the reality of evil caused by sin and promoted by Satan, the god of this world. Maybe.
I don't know; just some thoughts to ponder.

So if he held to your view he wouldn't have committed suicide, we get it. Goodness gracious! Unbelievable!

 

[DHK]

So if he held to your view he wouldn't have committed suicide, we get it. Goodness gracious! Unbelievable!

Do you believe this is written to Christians?
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
--That Satan is as a roaring lion seeking to devour or destroy you, and therefore has that capability?
--Do you believe in active warfare, that you must resist him every day, or just assume that he is a conquered foe, therefore you don't have anything to worry about?

And before you rashly throw out accusations, did I come to any concrete conclusions about Babcock? Yes or no?

 

[Internet Theologian]

Do you believe this is written to Christians?
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
--That Satan is as a roaring lion seeking to devour or destroy you, and therefore has that capability?
--Do you believe in active warfare, that you must resist him every day, or just assume that he is a conquered foe, therefore you don't have anything to worry about?

And before you rashly throw out accusations, did I come to any concrete conclusions about Babcock? Yes or no?

So now you go to another passage to continue to offer support. There is no other reason that you've gone to yet another passage but to offer support for your prior thoery.

Babcock believed this is his Fathers world, and he is correct. You disagree, and misapply Scripture to say it isn't. Then you continue your deduction until you come up with your conclusions and suggestions as to why he committed suicide.

You made an absurd and undeserved assertion on a brother who died. Let's play that on all here who don't own your view of the passage. I suppose if we all committed suicide, well, then the same accusation according to your deducing could be suggested and leveled upon others as well.

Your suggestion is over the top and uncalled for.

 

[revmwc]

I said this several months ago in a post and many told me there was no way it was satan that God is Soveriegn and therefore satan could not be the god of this world. and we see:

2 Corinthians 4:2-4King James Version (KJV)

2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Interlinear=If yet and it is having been covered the well message of us in the ones being destroyed it is covered


Thayer/Strongs

Kalypto = to hide, veil, to hinder the knowledge of a thing

Akin to Lepto=to steal, take away i.e. to take away with stealth.

And Akin to krypto=to hide, conceal, to be hid, escape notice, metaph. To conceal (that it may not become known).

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Calvin on verse 4:

"Whose minds the god of this world He intimates, that no account should be made of their perverse obstinacy. “They do not see,” says he, “the sun at mid-day, because the devil has blinded their understandings.” No one that judges rightly can have any doubt, that it is of Satan that the Apostle speaks. Hilary, as he had to do with Arians, who abused this passage, so as to make it a pretext for denying Christ’s true divinity, while they at the same time confessed him to be God, twists the text in this way — “God hath blinded the understandings of this world.” In this he was afterwards followed by Chrysostom, with the view of not conceding to the Manicheans their two first principles. (437) What influenced Ambrose does not appear. Augustine had the same reason as Chrysostom, having to contend with the Manicheans.

We see what the heat of controversy does in carrying on disputes. Had all those men calmly read Paul’s words, it would never have occurred to any one of them to twist them in this way into a forced meaning; but as they were harassed by their opponents, they were more concerned to refute them, than to investigate Paul’s meaning. But what occasion was there for this? For the subterfuge of the Arians was childish — that if the devil is called the god of this world, the name of God, as applied to Christ, does not express a true, eternal, and exclusive divinity. For Paul says elsewhere, many are called gods, (1 Corinthians 8:5 but David, on the other hand, sings forth — the gods of the nations are demons. (438) (Psalms 96:5.) When, therefore, the devil is called the god of the wicked, on the ground of his having dominion over them, and being worshipped by them in the place of God, what tendency has this to detract from the honor of Christ? And as to the Manicheans, this appellation gives no more countenance to the Manicheans, than when he is called the prince of this world. (John 14:30.) (439)"

Ephesian 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


1 Thessalonians 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.



Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him

Henry also supports that Dayan is the god of this world spoken of here

 

[DHK]

So now you go to another passage to continue to offer support. There is no other reason that you've gone to yet another passage but to offer support for your prior thoery.

Pay attention to the thread.
I used the passage in post #14.
SG agreed with it in his post, #17.

And now you say I am going to another passage?? Pay attention!!
Now just go back and answer my post.

Babcock believed this is his Fathers world, and he is correct. You disagree, and misapply Scripture to say it isn't. Then you continue your deduction until you come up with your conclusions and suggestions as to why he committed suicide.

You made an absurd and undeserved assertion on a brother who died. Let's play that on all here who don't own your view of the passage. I suppose if we all committed suicide, well, then the same accusation according to your deducing could be suggested and leveled upon others as well.

Your suggestion is over the top and uncalled for.

You have a right to your opinion.

 

[SovereignGrace]

It seems like we have come a long way. You have agreed with me on more points than disagreed.

That is why if we debate in a civil manner, we can hammer out our disagreements. We may never come to an agreement, but we can better grasp the other's position.

Here is the only point of real disagreement:

What I mean is that to be deceived, as that was the word you used, means he had blinded, fooled, hoodwinked us. But that is not so. Mormons, RCC, Muslims, Jews of this day, Buddhists, atheists(though I am hard pressed to believe anyone is a true atheist), are deceived by Satan into thinking their way of life is okay before others. When we sin, we know we sinned. We weren't deceived into thinking it was okay to do...we just sinned. We can not make any excuses when we sin. We did it, we need to own it and repent of it.

I want to quote to you a hymn, that you are probably familiar with, and then the writer that you may not be familiar with and see what you think.

This is my Father’s world, and to my listening ears
All nature sings, and round me rings the music of the spheres.
This is my Father’s world: I rest me in the thought
Of rocks and trees, of skies and seas;
His hand the wonders wrought.

This is my Father’s world, the birds their carols raise,
The morning light, the lily white, declare their Maker’s praise.
This is my Father’s world: He shines in all that’s fair;
In the rustling grass I hear Him pass;
He speaks to me everywhere.

This is my Father’s world. O let me ne’er forget
That though the wrong seems oft so strong, God is the ruler yet.
This is my Father’s world: the battle is not done:
Jesus Who died shall be satisfied,
And earth and Heav’n be one.

And there are more verses.
--You would be in agreement, right?

In fact one of the verses speaks of him as King:
This is my Father’s world, should my heart be ever sad?
The lord is King—let the heavens ring. God reigns—let the earth be glad.
This is my Father’s world. Now closer to Heaven bound,
For dear to God is the earth Christ trod.
No place but is holy ground.

First time I've ever read this song.

The author of the hymn was Maltbie Davenport Babcock, a Presbyterian pastor and hymn writer who lived 1858-1901.
From Wikipedia:
Upon receiving his degree in theology in 1882, Babcock became pastor of a church at Lockport, New York. He was described as having "an unusually brilliant intellect and stirring oratorical powers that commanded admiration, [that] won for him a foremost place among the favorites of his denomination".
"Babcock was preeminently a preacher. He was a clear thinker and a fluent speaker, with a marvelous personal magnetism which appealed to all classes of people, and the influence of which became in a sense national..."

In conclusion, when it speaks of his legacy, the article says:
Babcock died at age 42 in Naples, Italy, on May 18, 1901, returning from a trip to the Holy Land. According to a New York Times report of May 20, 1901, he committed suicide by slitting his wrist and ingesting "corrosive sublimate" or mercuric chloride.

Why would a man who would write such beautiful hymns praising God, adoring him as Lord and King of this world, be so depressed as to commit suicide at such a young age?

I don't know, and it is only conjecture. Is it possible that in considering that this "is His Father's world," he did not consider Satan the god of this world, and thus became so depressed with the wickedness because he couldn't look at the reality of evil caused by sin and promoted by Satan, the god of this world. Maybe.
I don't know; just some thoughts to ponder.

Ppl commit suicide all the time, I'm afraid. Don't know why Brother Babcock did it. Maybe his wife left him for another person. Maybe one of his kids died. Maybe the church turned their back on him. Who knows.

But I think that's a wee bit over the top to suggest as you did. I know you said it was merely conjecture, and I'll leave it there.

 

[DHK]

What I mean is that to be deceived, as that was the word you used, means he had blinded, fooled, hoodwinked us. But that is not so. Mormons, RCC, Muslims, Jews of this day, Buddhists, atheists(though I am hard pressed to believe anyone is a true atheist), are deceived by Satan into thinking their way of life is okay before others. When we sin, we know we sinned. We weren't deceived into thinking it was okay to do...we just sinned. We can not make any excuses when we sin. We did it, we need to own it and repent of it.

I believe it is much more than that. Eve was deceived. Adam outright rebelled, but Eve was deceived.
1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

As for believers, we are warned over and over again, Don't be deceived:

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Luke 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.


It will be false teachers, perhaps those that are demonized themselves which will influence the elect:
Mark 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I believe it is much more than that. Eve was deceived. Adam outright rebelled, but Eve was deceived.
1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

A whole lot is not said about Eve. Yes, she knew the demand(command) about partaking of that tree. But she added, "not to even touch it", now, where she got that from would have to have been Adam, no? So, Adam was the one who told her about that tree, not God. Yet, Satan deceived her. She was sinless at that time, had not been exposed to wickedness. So, she was deceived. The sin was when Adam ate, as he was the one who willfully rebelled, as you said. So, Adam being her representative, when he rebelled, she did too.

As for believers, we are warned over and over again, Don't be deceived:

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Luke 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.


It will be false teachers, perhaps those that are demonized themselves which will influence the elect:
Mark 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

I see these warnings as knowing who is saved vs who isn't. If anyone is deceived and falls away, they weren't really saved to begin with. That is where the five pt Arminian errs. They think they can forfeit their salvation and become lost again. If anyone is in church, and then begins living worldy again as if they were not saved, they weren 't saved to begin with.

Let me put it to you like this. One time a few yrs ago I was listening to a FWB preacher on the radio. He said someone could be a christian for 40 yrs and on their death bed, renounce their faith and die eternally lost. If they could do this, they weren't saved to begin with.

 

[Browner]

I see these warnings as knowing who is saved vs who isn't.

Yes, if God knows (and/or says) that Jerry is saved,
it is because He knows the outcome of his life.
Because salvation is a life-long process!

So, all of the warnings are only for God's elect
... to keep them on the straight and narrow.
Because only God's elect actually heed the warnings
and live an approved life before the Lord.