"The Good Pleasure of His Will"

[loDebar]

This is actual Gnosticism, not biblical Christianity.

The Archangel

Just the complete opposite, All humanity is good because it is the method of redemption. as opposed to Gnostics who say flesh is evil.
I say the spirit is more important than the flesh, ad Jesus does.

Humanism, placing the human experience above the spiritual has entered Christianity and we are deceived.

 

[Van]

I think you speculate heavily
1Co 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

is this your #1? or #2 explanation?

Take a guess, will those headed for the lake of fire be raised "incorruptible."

 

[loDebar]

Take a guess, will those headed for the lake of fire be raised "incorruptible."

Bodies are corruptible
1Co 15:50

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannotinherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

We do not understand the past correctly , why are you so confident in the future as taught by man?

Will be like the angels?

 

[Iconoclast]

This is actual Gnosticism, not biblical Christianity.

The Archangel

I had to do a double take trying to read this post. Did not see this one coming

 

[Van]

Bodies are corruptible
1Co 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
We do not understand the past correctly , why are you so confident in the future as taught by man?
Will be like the angels?

Sir, I answered your question, which mirrors the 1 Corinthians 15 passage.

 

[loDebar]

yes, you gave an answer but as many of our teachings it was in conflict with scripture, Flesh is physical, not spiritual. not eternal.
We have been fed a bias toward the human condition over the spiritual.

 

[loDebar]

I had to do a double take trying to read this post. Did not see this one coming

just a misunderstanding of both ideas

 

[Van]

yes, you gave an answer but as many of our teachings it was in conflict with scripture, Flesh is physical, not spiritual. not eternal.
We have been fed a bias toward the human condition over the spiritual.

Your objection is in conflict with scripture. When we are raised from the dead, our bodies will be incorruptible.

 

[loDebar]

Your objection is in conflict with scripture. When we are raised from the dead, our bodies will be incorruptible.

Why would you prefer to keep your current body?

We do not


1Co 15:49
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50
¶
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[loDebar]

we will probably be like angels with bodies appropriate for Heaven, not male or female

Mat 22:30

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven

 

[MB]

we will probably be like angels with bodies appropriate for Heaven, not male or female

Mat 22:30

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven

I've heard both for and against genders in heaven. The fallen angles had sexual relations with human women. So how is it they did if they have no sex?
MB

 

[Van]

Your last two posts were spot on and in agreement with scripture, except for the face saving nonsense about someone wanting to keep their corrupt flesh. Twaddle

 

[loDebar]

I've heard both for and against genders in heaven. The fallen angles had sexual relations with human women. So how is it they did if they have no sex?
MB

I just have the verse, the words of Jesus so idk. Maybe fallen angels can be human. Hebrews 1

 

[The Archangel]

Just the complete opposite, All humanity is good because it is the method of redemption. as opposed to Gnostics who say flesh is evil.
I say the spirit is more important than the flesh, ad Jesus does.

Humanism, placing the human experience above the spiritual has entered Christianity and we are deceived.

Ummm... No. While the Gnostics did believe all flesh to be evil, your error of dividing soul and body and seting them up against one another is also the error of Gnosticism. The Gnostics believed that what happened in the body did not matter--only what happened in the soul mattered.

You, in seeking to have the soul and the body as two entirely separate things, are repeating the essence of the Gnostic heresy (though in a bit of a different way)

Humans are both body and soul and these two elements are inextricably linked. The depravity of the soul certainly affects the body and the deterioration of the body can--and does--affect the soul. What is more, for your statement "humanity... is the method of redemption" to be correct, you would have to argue that the souls of Adam and Eve were committed to human bodies only after they sinned in the garden. While you want to claim being human redeems, Genesis clearly shows that soul and body are corrupted by sin.

That we were always intended to be a union of body and soul is seen most clearly in creation and Jesus' resurrection. That Jesus has a body now tells us that we will have a body in the eternal kingdom. That we will and that God created us with bodies in the beginning tells us that God always intended us to have a body--and so we will, except for the interim between our death's and Christ's return.

The Archangel

 

[loDebar]

why do you consider a link?

The body and soul will be separated, we all agree , in the future, but I believe, in the past as well.

This is implied here:
Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

We all suffer the curse of sin in the physical because we are physical, as well as spiritual.
Adam and Eve sinned BEFORE being human as spiritual beings but also sinned as a physical beings. We do too..

Our physical body is for here only and so that we can share by one's death in the Crucifixion and Salvation.

Why do you say the union of soul and body is intended a union? I suggest this is true in order to offer salvation by being related by blood to Jesus. God places us in a body in a place, time,family. for His purpose. This body is not necessary in Heaven

 

[The Archangel]

why do you consider a link?

The "link" between body and soul is plain in the text of scripture.

The body and soul will be separated, we all agree , in the future, but I believe, in the past as well.

This is implied here:
Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Body and soul are separated at death, but that separation is only temporary. Life in the eternal kingdom will be a life in a physical body. This is quite clear as Jesus Himself, when resurrected, is given a new, physical body. To continue to hold your position, you'd have to argue Jesus was raised spiritually, not physically.

We all suffer the curse of sin in the physical because we are physical, as well as spiritual.
Adam and Eve sinned BEFORE being human as spiritual beings but also sinned as a physical beings. We do too..

Our physical body is for here only and so that we can share by one's death in the Crucifixion and Salvation.

Why do you say the union of soul and body is intended a union? I suggest this is true in order to offer salvation by being related by blood to Jesus. God places us in a body in a place, time,family. for His purpose. This body is not necessary in Heaven

This is, perhaps, the most troubling statements...

You say "Adam and Eve sinned BEFORE being human as spiritual beings." This is, frankly, a ridiculous statement. From the pages of Genesis 2 we see:

[5] When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, [6] and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground—[7] then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature. [8] And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. [9] And out of the ground the LORD God made to spring up every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. (Genesis 2:5–9 ESV, emphasis mine)
​

Genesis is quite clear that God formed man and "animated" him. The breathing into man, gave him a soul, for that is what is meant by the text saying "the man became a living creature." In Hebrew this word is נֶ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh) and it shows that the soul isn't some pre-existent thing; instead it comes into being in conjunction with the creation of Adam.

Furthermore, there is no place in scripture which states that Adam and Eve were, somehow, "spirit beings" before they sinned. That is preposterous, and it's the stuff fairy-tales, not biblical theology, are made of.

The Archangel

 

[loDebar]

The "link" between body and soul is plain in the text of scripture.



Body and soul are separated at death, but that separation is only temporary. Life in the eternal kingdom will be a life in a physical body. This is quite clear as Jesus Himself, when resurrected, is given a new, physical body. To continue to hold your position, you'd have to argue Jesus was raised spiritually, not physically.



This is, perhaps, the most troubling statements...

You say "Adam and Eve sinned BEFORE being human as spiritual beings." This is, frankly, a ridiculous statement. From the pages of Genesis 2 we see:

[5] When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, [6] and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground—[7] then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature. [8] And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. [9] And out of the ground the LORD God made to spring up every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. (Genesis 2:5–9 ESV, emphasis mine)
​

Genesis is quite clear that God formed man and "animated" him. The breathing into man, gave him a soul, for that is what is meant by the text saying "the man became a living creature." In Hebrew this word is נֶ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh) and it shows that the soul isn't some pre-existent thing; instead it comes into being in conjunction with the creation of Adam.

Furthermore, there is no place in scripture which states that Adam and Eve were, somehow, "spirit beings" before they sinned. That is preposterous, and it's the stuff fairy-tales, not biblical theology, are made of.

The Archangel

Actually it is very scriptural, or I would not post it. Do not only think of man as a body only but the only physical and spiritual being God created.


Adam became a Living Soul, verses a DEAD soul as Jesus referred to Humans as dead
They did not sin as men . They were already condemned. Who condemned them?

Mankind is the method that God has chosen to offer salvation to many through one death.

Jesus did not get a new physical body, His old body was resurrected as proof He was alive.

Why do you want to keep your body?

 

[The Archangel]

Actually it is very scriptural, or I would not post it. Do not only think of man as a body only but the only physical and spiritual being God created.


Adam became a Living Soul, verses a DEAD soul as Jesus referred to Humans as dead
They did not sin as men . They were already condemned. Who condemned them?

Mankind is the method that God has chosen to offer salvation to many through one death.

Jesus did not get a new physical body, His old body was resurrected as proof He was alive.

Why do you want to keep your body?

I think it’s funny and very telling that you post your views, calling them “scriptural” and then post no scripture.

The Archangel


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[loDebar]

I think it’s funny and very telling that you post your views, calling them “scriptural” and then post no scripture.

The Archangel


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oh I have, just not on your reply,
What in particular? if you are not familiar with scripture.

 

[The Archangel]

oh I have, just not on your reply,
What in particular? if you are not familiar with scripture.

I am quite familiar with scripture, thank you very much. Let’s start with where you get the idea that Adam and Eve sinned before they were human.

The Archangel


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