The Gospel According to Jesus Christ

[TCassidy]

Andy is correct on this score.

"Drawn up by the 1646 Westminster Assembly as part of the Westminster Standards to be a confession of the Church of England, it became and remains the "subordinate standard" of doctrine in the Church of Scotland and has been influential within Presbyterian churches worldwide."

 

[Rippon]

"Drawn up by the 1646 Westminster Assembly as part of the Westminster Standards to be a confession of the Church of England, it became and remains the "subordinate standard" of doctrine in the Church of Scotland and has been influential within Presbyterian churches worldwide."

You had said it was written up by a bunch of Confessional Anglicans. But that was not the case, as I explained.

 

[TCassidy]

You had said it was written up by a bunch of Confessional Anglicans. But that was not the case, as I explained.

"a confession of the Church of England,"

 

[Rippon]

"a confession of the Church of England,"

You are ignoring the reality that mainly Presbyterians wrote it up. The actual authorship is my point --not what body approved it.

 

[Yeshua1]

We born anew believers love God and love those God died for. We love the Word of God and love that it means what it says, and says what it means. The Gospel is not that you were saved or damned from all eternity for all eternity and nothing you do will alter that fate for yourself or for those you love.

Total Spiritual Inability from conception is false doctrine, we start out with Limited Spiritual Ability, able to understand spiritual milk, but not spiritual meat. Some lose their spiritual ability because of hardening, like the first soil of Matthew 13, but the rest if cultivated, planted and watered may trust in Christ and have their faith credited as righteousness by God.

God chooses individuals for salvation through faith in the truth.

Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all. God desires all people to be saved. And everyone believing into Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Christ died for you, be reconciled to God, through faith in Jesus Christ.

The Godpel of Jesus Christ.

NONE whoa re unsaved will be able to understand the spiritual truth of the bible unaided, as it is "Greek" to them!

 

[Yeshua1]

I am a 4 point Calvinist and believe in unconditional election and effectual calling.

I don't know who the elect are.

All people are commanded to repent and place faith in Christ. Christians are commanded to preach the gospel to all people.

As the Gospel is preached to all people .... the elect come to the surface.

I don't need to know who the elect are. I have been commanded to preach the Gospel to ALL people.

The system seems to work well.

The elect will be the ones who respond to the message of the Cross and get saved! that shows that God had chosen them to be saved...

 

[Yeshua1]

"a confession of the Church of England,"

Good news is that we are bound by the bible only as our standard for doctrines!

 

[Van]

Y1 makes these sort of absurd and false statements non-stop. Never cites scripture. Paul spoke to new Christians as to "men of flesh," therefore men of flesh can understand and respond to the milk of the gospel. See 1 Corinthians 3:1-3. Total Spiritual Inability is false theology as has been shown by three independent lines of evidence. It is true no one seeks after God "all the time" because we are not seeking God when sinning. OTOH, Matthew 23:13 teaches unsaved men were entering the kingdom of heaven, therefore they had some spiritual ability. Jesus taught in parables to preclude folks from understanding and being healed.
God harden hearts (Romans 11) which means they had some spiritual ability before being hardened. On and on the evidence is overwhelming, yet all evidence is ignored with the "taint so" mantra.

 

[Yeshua1]

Y1 makes these sort of absurd and false statements non-stop. Never cites scripture. Paul spoke to new Christians as to "men of flesh," therefore men of flesh can understand and respond to the milk of the gospel. See 1 Corinthians 3:1-3. Total Spiritual Inability is false theology as has been shown by three independent lines of evidence. It is true no one seeks after God "all the time" because we are not seeking God when sinning. OTOH, Matthew 23:13 teaches unsaved men were entering the kingdom of heaven, therefore they had some spiritual ability. Jesus taught in parables to preclude folks from understanding and being healed.
God harden hearts (Romans 11) which means they had some spiritual ability before being hardened. On and on the evidence is overwhelming, yet all evidence is ignored with the "taint so" mantra.

Paul stated that they were SAVED< but acting as if they were not, as flesh, and to paul, there are babes in Christ, mature, and carnal, those not saved and ignorant to spiritual truths!

 

[Van]

Scripture says Paul spoke to them as men of flesh. Therefore men of flesh can understand spiritual milk. See 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.
The "T" of the Tulip is false theology as demonstrated by many passages in scripture. Why is it harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God, than for others, if both have no spiritual ability. Folks, no answer will be forthcoming, just another "taint so" post.

 

[Calv1]

"And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.” Jesus Is Equal with GodThis was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel. For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live" (Gospel of John, Chapter 5, verses 16-25)

Here we have a conversation between Jesus and the Jews who wanted to kill Him, because He had not only broken the sabbath, but called the Father, "My own Father", in a personal, unique way, thereby making Himself equal to God the Father.

Note what Jesus says to these murdering Jews. He tells these Jews who are "spiritually dead" (verse 25), that if they "hear My word and believe", they would have "eternal life". It is very interesting that Calvinism teaches that the "spiritual dead" are "SO dead", that they can never hear the call of God to "spiritual life". However, here we have the words of God Himself, where He says in verse 25, that these "spiritually dead", WILL HEAR His Voice, and those who "hear", that is "respond to it", WILL LIVE. Remember who Jesus is speaking to, the same Jews who wanted to murder Him, and He says YOU, if YOU will hear My words, that is the Gospel of Salvation, then THEY will LIVE. Yes, Jesus also died for these murdering Jews, because THEY are also part of "THE WORLD" that He "LOVES"! All of the above passage is directed to the Jews of verse 16.

Jesus says that ALL who will respond to His call WILL LIVE. Calvinism say NO, only those who are "elect" can and will come to Jesus. This yet again exposes the anti-biblical teachings of Calvinism. Now watch how the Calvinists on this forum twist their way out of this!

Sorry but you are one ignorant guy, WHY DON'T YOU STUDY REFORMED THEOLOGY BEFORE MAKING A FOOL OUT OF YOURSELF? SERIOUS?

You don't know what you are talking about, Calvinism does NOT SAY NO, EVERYONE IS CALLED, but only the Chosen WILL COME, get the difference? We are to preach TO ALL, and ANYONE who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved, BUT, ONLY the elect will come. Listen to Jesus Christ version of how this works, He gives us a perfect example;

John 6 et al. "You are UNABLE to come to me UNLESS the Father who has sent me DRAWS HIM, ALL that the Father DRAWS WILL COME, and I will raise him up on the last day". Now if you know language this is very simple, and you'll never get over or under John 6, the Jews were grumbling, wondering how Jesus could be the Messiah, he cuts them off and explains "How it works", He says first we are unable to come to Him, UNLESS something happens, what is that something? "Unless the Father DRAW HIM", and how many of those drawn will come? ALL, so we are all dead in sin, unable to come to Christ, doesn't mean invitation isn't given, just as the ten commandments were given to a people who couldn't do them, if the Father draws us (Greek "Dragged"), then we won't come.

Sorry this is why I don't debate, this guy's never studied a day in his life, puts up this stupid post and thinks he's made a point.

 

[Christine Baker]

"And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.” Jesus Is Equal with GodThis was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel. For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live" (Gospel of John, Chapter 5, verses 16-25)

Here we have a conversation between Jesus and the Jews who wanted to kill Him, because He had not only broken the sabbath, but called the Father, "My own Father", in a personal, unique way, thereby making Himself equal to God the Father.

Note what Jesus says to these murdering Jews. He tells these Jews who are "spiritually dead" (verse 25), that if they "hear My word and believe", they would have "eternal life". It is very interesting that Calvinism teaches that the "spiritual dead" are "SO dead", that they can never hear the call of God to "spiritual life". However, here we have the words of God Himself, where He says in verse 25, that these "spiritually dead", WILL HEAR His Voice, and those who "hear", that is "respond to it", WILL LIVE. Remember who Jesus is speaking to, the same Jews who wanted to murder Him, and He says YOU, if YOU will hear My words, that is the Gospel of Salvation, then THEY will LIVE. Yes, Jesus also died for these murdering Jews, because THEY are also part of "THE WORLD" that He "LOVES"! All of the above passage is directed to the Jews of verse 16.

Jesus says that ALL who will respond to His call WILL LIVE. Calvinism say NO, only those who are "elect" can and will come to Jesus. This yet again exposes the anti-biblical teachings of Calvinism. Now watch how the Calvinists on this forum twist their way out of this!

Hi.
I'm not really sure of what ur question is. I'm not a Calvinist (nor of any other denomination. Just a stay at home, semi-disabled, worshipper of my God, Jesus.) but concerning who gets saved, I read in 1 Tim 4:10 that Jesus is the Saviour of all men, especially of believers. Also, aren't we all spiritually dead until He makes us alive together with Him, anyway? Eph 2:1.

Surely, anyone who says, "We must do this or that to be truly saved!", is mistaken? I thought Jesus does the saving and we enter into His rest? It's all very confusing to me to hear ppl ranting on about a side issue, when it's obviously just another attempt to distract anyone from the main issue - that being Jesus Himself. Surely, if we are focused on our blessed Lord, we walk in the light as He is in the light? Then we don't stumble about in the dark but have the light of life? Don't get distracted off onto a side road but stick to the long and narrow way.

The fact of the matter is that we all only know in part. If we fully knew now, we'd only have to suffer a greater punishment at the last day for our continuation in sin whilst having knowledge. We are flesh and subject to it (Rom 7:25) and sin is condemned in the flesh (ch8). Too many ppl get this idea in their heads that they must DO stuff to prove their sincerity to God. It's actually a display of unbelief.

Of all ppl, we so called 'Christians' are supposed to be loving one another. We are supposed to reveal this love of Christ to the world. To me it appears we are more inclined to demonstrate our own indignant and impatient irritation with one another, and that before the world too. One says I am of Apollos! Another, I am of Cephas!

Let us love one another therefore, accepting one another for Christ's sake. Let us not keep challenging one another, hating one another. To Him be the glory.

 

[Revmitchell]

"And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.” Jesus Is Equal with GodThis was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel. For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live" (Gospel of John, Chapter 5, verses 16-25)

Here we have a conversation between Jesus and the Jews who wanted to kill Him, because He had not only broken the sabbath, but called the Father, "My own Father", in a personal, unique way, thereby making Himself equal to God the Father.

Note what Jesus says to these murdering Jews. He tells these Jews who are "spiritually dead" (verse 25), that if they "hear My word and believe", they would have "eternal life". It is very interesting that Calvinism teaches that the "spiritual dead" are "SO dead", that they can never hear the call of God to "spiritual life". However, here we have the words of God Himself, where He says in verse 25, that these "spiritually dead", WILL HEAR His Voice, and those who "hear", that is "respond to it", WILL LIVE. Remember who Jesus is speaking to, the same Jews who wanted to murder Him, and He says YOU, if YOU will hear My words, that is the Gospel of Salvation, then THEY will LIVE. Yes, Jesus also died for these murdering Jews, because THEY are also part of "THE WORLD" that He "LOVES"! All of the above passage is directed to the Jews of verse 16.

Yep, the illustration of Lazarus being dead does not properly illustrate just exactly what it means to be spiritually dead. It is in fact contrary to much of scripture. Romans 10:9 says the lost are to believe and confess you will be saved. No physically dead man can do that.

Further, we are commanded in Romans 6:11 to count ourselves dead to sin but alive to God. If being dead in sin means one cannot respond to the gospel then it would also have to mean that being dead to sin means we cannot respond to sin. Since Christians do in fact respond to sin (that we are to count ourselves dead to) then the physically dead illustration falls apart.

Romans 10:14 asks "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed?" The answer from the cal/reformed/ particular position is that they must first be regenerated before they can believe.

Calvinists cannot honestly claim to believe in faith alone. They need to add they hold to regeneration and faith for salvation in order to keep their integrity.

In Romans 10:9-17 it creates an immediate need to hear the gospel to be saved but the calvinist see a need for their to be regeneration and to hear the gospel. Of course that is no where found in the gospel message.

Now watch how the Calvinists on this forum twist their way out of this!

No they do not squirm they attack. They engage in ad hominem logical fallacies. They will directly or by implication call you stupid and categorize your posts as such or ignorant at best. This is when you know they have no further argument.

 

[MennoSota]

Yep, the illustration of Lazarus being dead does not properly illustrate just exactly what it means to be spiritually dead. It is in fact contrary to much of scripture. Romans 10:9 says the lost are to believe and confess you will be saved. No physically dead man can do that.

Further, we are commanded in Romans 6:11 to count ourselves dead to sin but alive to God. If being dead in sin means one cannot respond to the gospel then it would also have to mean that being dead to sin means we cannot respond to sin. Since Christians do in fact respond to sin (that we are to count ourselves dead to) then the physically dead illustration falls apart.

Romans 10:14 asks "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed?" The answer from the cal/reformed/ particular position is that they must first be regenerated before they can believe.

Calvinists cannot honestly claim to believe in faith alone. They need to add they hold to regeneration and faith for salvation in order to keep their integrity.

In Romans 10:9-17 it creates an immediate need to hear the gospel to be saved but the calvinist see a need for their to be regeneration and to hear the gospel. Of course that is no where found in the gospel message.





No they do not squirm they attack. They engage in ad hominem logical fallacies. They will directly or by implication call you stupid and categorize your posts as such or ignorant at best. This is when you know they have no further argument.

All those verses you quote, support election, and God's adoption resulting in redemption. It's disappointing that you cannot grasp why.

 

[Calv1]

"And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.” Jesus Is Equal with GodThis was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel. For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live" (Gospel of John, Chapter 5, verses 16-25)

Here we have a conversation between Jesus and the Jews who wanted to kill Him, because He had not only broken the sabbath, but called the Father, "My own Father", in a personal, unique way, thereby making Himself equal to God the Father.

Note what Jesus says to these murdering Jews. He tells these Jews who are "spiritually dead" (verse 25), that if they "hear My word and believe", they would have "eternal life". It is very interesting that Calvinism teaches that the "spiritual dead" are "SO dead", that they can never hear the call of God to "spiritual life". However, here we have the words of God Himself, where He says in verse 25, that these "spiritually dead", WILL HEAR His Voice, and those who "hear", that is "respond to it", WILL LIVE. Remember who Jesus is speaking to, the same Jews who wanted to murder Him, and He says YOU, if YOU will hear My words, that is the Gospel of Salvation, then THEY will LIVE. Yes, Jesus also died for these murdering Jews, because THEY are also part of "THE WORLD" that He "LOVES"! All of the above passage is directed to the Jews of verse 16.

Jesus says that ALL who will respond to His call WILL LIVE. Calvinism say NO, only those who are "elect" can and will come to Jesus. This yet again exposes the anti-biblical teachings of Calvinism. Now watch how the Calvinists on this forum twist their way out of this!

Wow! No Exegesis, this is called EIEGESIS.

Yes, they are DEAD. And yes they will HEAR HIS VOICE, but what else does John say about the topic?

John 6; The Jews were grumbling among themselves, "How can this be the Christ", "Don't we know Him", Jesus said "Why do you grumble among yourself, do you not know you are UNABLE to come to me unless the Father who sent me DRAW HIM". So here we have a condition, they are trying to figure out how He can be Christ, Jesus gives the reason why they can't figure it out "Do you not know you are UNABLE", then Jesus says a certain CONDITION MUST OCCUR BEFORE THEY CAN BELIEVE.

"All that the Father draw WILL COME TO ME", not some, not part, not all are drawn but some will come, ALL THAT ARE DRAWN WILL COME, it's 100%. Then Jesus follows up with "And the one coming to me I will in no way cast out".

Here we have total depravity, which never means we are as evil as can be, we are not devils, God is good to all, even those He hates, "You are unable", we have irresistible grace "Unless the Father DRAW HIM", and perseverance of the saints "I will in no way cast away".

No Arminian in history has been able to jump John 6:40 et al, they don't even try in commentaries, and in debates are speechless, I'm sure that won't stop the ignorant on this site, but I'm talking about the experts.

 

[InTheLight]

Sorry but you are one ignorant guy, WHY DON'T YOU STUDY REFORMED THEOLOGY BEFORE MAKING A FOOL OUT OF YOURSELF?

Sorry this is why I don't debate, this guy's never studied a day in his life, puts up this stupid post and thinks he's made a point.

"How to Debate" by A. Calvinist.



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