The gospel according to Paul

[AndThisGospel]

So they weren't dying because they were transgressors, but because they were sinners.

We are sinners because we share in Adam's corporate life after the fall. We are, after all, the multiplication of his fallen life.

Infants are not born guilty of transgression, yet they are sinners:

"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me." Ps 51:5 NKJV

"Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." NIV

David was “shapen in iniquity” from his very birth. This was his spiritual condition since physically he was handsome [1 Samuel 16:12]. The primary meaning of iniquity is not an act but a condition. As a result of the fall, man by very nature is spiritually “bent,” so that the driving force of his very nature is love of self. Paul defines it as “the law of sin and death” [Romans 7:23; 8:2]. It is this condition that is the basis of all our sinning, and which makes us slaves to sin [Romans 3:9-12; 7:14].

 

[Yeshua1]

Infants are not born guilty of transgression, yet they are sinners:

"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me." Ps 51:5 NKJV

"Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." NIV

David was “shapen in iniquity” from his very birth. This was his spiritual condition since physically he was handsome [1 Samuel 16:12]. The primary meaning of iniquity is not an act but a condition. As a result of the fall, man by very nature is spiritually “bent,” so that the driving force of his very nature is love of self. Paul defines it as “the law of sin and death” [Romans 7:23; 8:2]. It is this condition that is the basis of all our sinning, and which makes us slaves to sin [Romans 3:9-12; 7:14].

We are ensalved to our sin natures, as tre is no real power in the flesh to resist that fully.

 

[AndThisGospel]

You totally missed my point.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Th gospel Calvin preached and taught is same one Paul wrote!

Not even close...

 

[AndThisGospel]

How did Christ, as the self-existing Son of God, unite Himself to our corporate fallen life in order to justify us in Himself before His Father's law? The answer is the gospel....

Anyone?

 

[AndThisGospel]

Keep in mind that Jesus is God. He self-existing. There never was a time when Christ's Deity didn't exist. At the incarnation the Divinity of Christ (i.e., the Son of God) was united to our corporate fallen life. This life became the Son of Man.

Note, Paul states the same:

Rom 1:3 "...concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord,

who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,

4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

Heb 10:5 "Therefore, when He (the Son of God - Christ's Divinity) came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me."

That "body" was our corporate fallen life in Mary's womb. Hence "our old self" was united to Christ's Deity. That's how Christ as God united Himself to our humanity.

Hence when Christ as the Son of Man died, all men died in Him. The justice of the law has been satisfied.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Hence when Christ as the Son of Man died, all men died in Him. The justice of the law has been satisfied.

BTW, our death in Christ was "the second death", which was goodbye to our fallen, Adamic life forever. Our old, fallen, sinful life remained in the grave. In it's place Christ was raised with a glorified, sinless corporate humanity that He took to heaven about 2000 years ago. Proof?

Col 1:13 13 "For He (God the Father) rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."

When Christ, our High Priest, went back to heaven to represent us He transferred us to heaven itself "in Him." The us being "a new creation (or creature)" 2 Cor 5:17

Here's another one:

Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus...

 

[AndThisGospel]

Therefore, "in Christ Jesus" we have legally answered the demands of God's law.

1. "In Him" we have answered the justice of the law, which is the 2nd death - "the curse of the law". Ref: Rom 6:6/7:4, 2 Cor 5:14 and Gal 3:13
2. "In Christ" we have a "new creation" (see 2 Cor 5:17). This creation is immortal & sinless and stands before God's law "in Christ Jesus"

 

[AndThisGospel]

Therefore, "in Christ Jesus" we have legally answered the demands of God's law.

1. "In Him" we have answered the justice of the law, which is the 2nd death - "the curse of the law". Ref: Rom 6:6/7:4, 2 Cor 5:14 and Gal 3:13
2. "In Christ" we have a "new creation" (see 2 Cor 5:17). This creation is immortal & sinless and stands before God's law "in Christ Jesus"

Any doctrine that rejects points 1 & 2 is by Paul's own words "another gospel", which is no gospel at all. (see Gal 1:6-9) So the church must be very careful to present "the gospel" instead of "another gospel".

 

[MB]

According to the book of the law, no innocent person is allowed to be punished for the guilt of another [see Deut. 24:16; note also Ezk. 18:20.]

Since Christ committed no sin, the big question is: how could God punish Him on the cross for our sins? Is He not going against His own law?

God created the Law for man to live by. God has no govern over Him

This was the main issue fought over the doctrine of justification by faith, in the Counter Reformation. Roman Catholic scholars, like Osiender and Newman, accused the Reformers of legal fiction. If God can justify sinners without first making them righteous, they argued, than He Himself is guilty of breaking His own law. Today, the Muslim scholars are putting forth the same argument and accusing Christianity of being the most unethical religion in the world.

Justification by faith verses the RCC's false claim of being the redeemer it self is laughable. It isn't an organization that saves but the innocent blood of our savior. It is the unjust punishment of the only innocent man that could save man from sin. Since many have died because of one mans sin. Many will live because of one mans righteousness. Remember Christ was a willing sacrifice for the salvation of many
MB

 

[Samuels]

There was a only one gospel presented in Christianity (otherwise it wouldn't be Christianity. Since we are in the Cal/Arm section, I take it you are referring to how each understands this one gospel. And yes, understandings vary.

Let us consider the possibility of the progression of deeper true Gospels:
1) simple Gospel -- for the newborn babes on milk, it must be positive and non-threatening
2) deeper Gospel -- for those on meat are given some deeper truths
3) deepest Gospel -- the FULL Gospel includes teaching with signs and wonders

 

[JonC]

Let us consider the possibility of the progression of deeper true Gospels:
1) simple Gospel -- for the newborn babes on milk, it must be positive and non-threatening
2) deeper Gospel -- for those on meat
3) deepest Gospel -- the FULL Gospel includes teaching with signs and wonders

Sure. But first provide Scripture describing a gospel other than the one first given (other than the one Paul says he preached when he preached Christ crucified).

 

[Samuels]

Sure. But first provide Scripture describing a gospel other than the one first given (other than the one Paul says he preached when he preached Christ crucified).

Sure, Paul preached the simple gospel to the unsaved.
But, then again, he said that to some (or all) he preached with signs and wonders following!
Which is God's method ... since it confirms/validates the Truth of the Gospel.
But, of course, Satan has convinced many otherwise.

Are you asking for the milk and meat verses?

People just don't get it at all ... Satan is the god of this world/age!
Hey, the NT says Satan deceives the whole world.
In the NT, world refers to the unbelieving world, right?
And Hebrews 3 states that the disobedient are proving their unbelief.

Special spiritual revelation is necessary to overcome this problem.
And this may be given to those who are OPEN to receiving the Truth.

 

[Samuels]

Next, let us ask about Jesus' "hard sayings" in the 4 Gospels.
Are these to be considered part of The Gospel?

IMO, these are more threatening to EVERYONE than what Paul taught.

E.G. Paul never said we must hate our relatives (compared to our love for Jesus).

RE: loving Jesus, He said 4 times in John 14 ...
"Those who love Me will obey My commandments"
And in John 15, Jesus said ...
"If you are My friend, you will obey My commandments.

I would love to know ... WHO exactly gets into heaven?
-- who does NOT love Jesus
-- who is NOT Jesus' friend
-- who does NOT obey Jesus' commandments

IMO, those who are on that narrow path after entering through that narrow gate.

 

[JonC]

Sure, Paul preached the simple gospel to the unsaved.
But, then again, he said that to some (or all) he preached with signs and wonders following!
Which is God's method ... since it confirms/validates the Truth of the Gospel.
But, of course, Satan has convinced many otherwise.

Are you asking for the milk and meat verses?

People just don't get it at all ... Satan is the god of this world/age!
Hey, the NT says Satan deceives the whole world.
In the NT, world refers to the unbelieving world, right?

Special spiritual revelation is necessary to overcome this problem.
And this may be given to those who are OPEN to receiving the Truth.

Are you speaking of Paul's evangelism (sharing and explaining the gospel to the lost) or his letters to the church (encouraging and admonishing, instructing and expounding)?

 

[Samuels]

Are you speaking of Paul's evangelism (sharing and explaining the gospel to the lost) or his letters to the church (encouraging and admonishing, instructing and expounding)?

Perhaps you are referring to what I wrote ...
"Sure, Paul preached the simple gospel to the unsaved.
But, then again, he said that to some (or all) he preached with signs and wonders following!
Which is God's method ... since it confirms/validates the Truth of the Gospel."

Well, from my experience, this would include both inside and outside of church.

RE: the bold above ... mixed in with these, Paul very tactfully included his many warnings!
Which are IGNORED by church people who have been totally deceived and brainwashed.
By Satan and the church.

BTW, Paul was taught to be incredibly tactful (usually) by none other than Jesus Himself
during those 17 years in the desert regions ... before Paul really began his ministry.
See the end of Gal 1 and start of Gal 2.

 

[JonC]

Perhaps you are referring to what I wrote ...
"Sure, Paul preached the simple gospel to the unsaved.
But, then again, he said that to some (or all) he preached with signs and wonders following!
Which is God's method ... since it confirms/validates the Truth of the Gospel."

Well, from my experience, this would include both inside and outside of church.

I just want to make sure we are on the same page. Scripture indicates signs accompanined Pauls ministry at times, but not or even most of the time. What do you see as the purpose of these signs?

 

[Samuels]

What do you see as the purpose of these signs?

"Which is God's method ... since it confirms/validates the Truth of the Gospel."

 

[Yeshua1]

Sure. But first provide Scripture describing a gospel other than the one first given (other than the one Paul says he preached when he preached Christ crucified).

There is but ONE Gospel that all of the Apostles preached and wrote about!

 

[Yeshua1]

Sure, Paul preached the simple gospel to the unsaved.
But, then again, he said that to some (or all) he preached with signs and wonders following!
Which is God's method ... since it confirms/validates the Truth of the Gospel.
But, of course, Satan has convinced many otherwise.

Are you asking for the milk and meat verses?

People just don't get it at all ... Satan is the god of this world/age!
Hey, the NT says Satan deceives the whole world.
In the NT, world refers to the unbelieving world, right?
And Hebrews 3 states that the disobedient are proving their unbelief.

Special spiritual revelation is necessary to overcome this problem.
And this may be given to those who are OPEN to receiving the Truth.

The signs and wonders were done by God thru the Apostles ONLY for the time of Acts, as we were transistioning between old and new covenats, and those were used to validate and confirm their message of Jesus as Lord/Messiah!
Now, we all are enbled/empowered by same Spirit t teach/preach same Jesus, and HE will do te work to save the lost wih that message, e dos not need anymore to ue signs and wonders!

Do you hold to a second act of Grace, baptism in HS then also, with oher tongues?