The gospel according to Paul

[Yeshua1]

Next, let us ask about Jesus' "hard sayings" in the 4 Gospels.
Are these to be considered part of The Gospel?

IMO, these are more threatening to EVERYONE than what Paul taught.

E.G. Paul never said we must hate our relatives (compared to our love for Jesus).

RE: loving Jesus, He said 4 times in John 14 ...
"Those who love Me will obey My commandments"
And in John 15, Jesus said ...
"If you are My friend, you will obey My commandments.

I would love to know ... WHO exactly gets into heaven?
-- who does NOT love Jesus
-- who is NOT Jesus' friend
-- who does NOT obey Jesus' commandments

IMO, those who are on that narrow path after entering through that narrow gate.

Have you always keep the law of God perfectly then?

 

[Yeshua1]

I just want to make sure we are on the same page. Scripture indicates signs accompanined Pauls ministry at times, but not or even most of the time. What do you see as the purpose of these signs?

he seemed to have lost his power to heal Timothy...

 

[Yeshua1]

"Which is God's method ... since it confirms/validates the Truth of the Gospel."

No need for that, as He already has confirmed that thu Acts, and we now have the completed anon of scriptures...
Author of Hebrews stated that the signs and wonders were becoming past tense, not used when tha book was written even!

 

[AndThisGospel]

God created the Law for man to live by. God has no govern over Him....

First point: "God created the Law for man to live by"

Romans 5:20 "The law entered in so that transgression might increase"

God gave the law so that men could see the impossibility of saving himself and stand just by faith alone. See Gal 3:19-25 & Romans 3:9-31

Point two: "God has no govern over Him"

The foundation of God's government is His law. His law is an expression of His agape love.

The Bible states that "God is love" (1 John 4:8). Paul tell us that "love is the fulfillment of the law" Rom 13:10. The Greek word of our English word love is "agape". Therefore "God is agape". And "agape is the fulfillment of the law". God, therefore, is in harmony with His law. If not then why did Christ come to fulfill the law? (see Matt 5:17)

If God's law is meaningless to Him then why didn't He simply snap His fingers and say to all of us, "you are forgiven"? Instead Christ as God came and assumed our fallen, corporate life and for over thirty years lived a perfect life in obedience to it. And on the cross the justice of the law was satisfied because your old, fallen life from Adam died when He was crucified.

God is not above His own law. He is its Author.

 

[MB]

First point: "God created the Law for man to live by"

Romans 5:20 "The law entered in so that transgression might increase"

alone. See Gal 3:19-25 & Romans 3:9-31.

Point two: "God has no govern over Him"

The foundation of God's government is His law. His law is an expression of His agape love.

The Bible states that "God is love" (1 John 4:8). Paul tell us that "love is the fulfillment of the law" Rom 13:10. The Greek word of our English word love is "agape". Therefore "God is agape". And "agape is the fulfillment of the law". God, therefore, is in harmony with His law. If not then why did Christ come to fulfill the law? (see Matt 5:17)

Christ didn't just come to fulfill the Law. He came to save the world from sin and the way that He did this fulfilled the Law.

If God's law is meaningless to Him then why didn't He simply snap His fingers and say to all of us, "you are forgiven"? Instead Christ as God came and assumed our fallen, corporate life and for over thirty years lived a perfect life in obedience to it. And on the cross the justice of the law was satisfied because your old, fallen life from Adam died when He was crucified.

God is not above His own law. He is its Author.

Nothing is equal with God.
The under lined above needs support. I was not saved when Christ died. I was saved when I believed in Him
God doesn't have to answer because of the Law. He gives life and He takes it. Is God a murderer? because He takes life. Therefore the Law is not for God to Obey, It's for man to Obey. The Law was given to point us to Christ but the Law cannot save us. Yet with out which we couldn't know we are sinners.
As far as"The fallen man", we do not have eternal life on earth because of Adams sin.and we cannot live in God;s garden. I do not believe I fell from anything because I was never on anything to fall from. I was born in sin but I wasn't a born sinner. and scripture doesn't say that I was. I'm a sinner yes but because of my own actions. No one is responsible for the sins of another. Yes we all die, but we must live first in order to die. Adam had eternal life to begin with and yes He fell from that stand point yet sin is not inheritable.
Being spiritually dead does not mean unable, and scripture never says it is.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

Christ didn't just come to fulfill the Law. He came to save the world from sin and the way that He did this fulfilled the Law.

Nothing is equal with God.
The under lined above needs support. I was not saved when Christ died. I was saved when I believed in Him
God doesn't have to answer because of the Law. He gives life and He takes it. Is God a murderer? because He takes life. Therefore the Law is not for God to Obey, It's for man to Obey. The Law was given to point us to Christ but the Law cannot save us. Yet with out which we couldn't know we are sinners.
As far as"The fallen man", we do not have eternal life on earth because of Adams sin.and we cannot live in God;s garden. I do not believe I fell from anything because I was never on anything to fall from. I was born in sin but I wasn't a born sinner. and scripture doesn't say that I was. I'm a sinner yes but because of my own actions. No one is responsible for the sins of another. Yes we all die, but we must live first in order to die. Adam had eternal life to begin with and yes He fell from that stand point yet sin is not inheritable.
Being spiritually dead does not mean unable, and scripture never says it is.
MB

Spiritual dead mans that we annot come to christ in and by just ourselves!

 

[Yeshua1]

First point: "God created the Law for man to live by"

Romans 5:20 "The law entered in so that transgression might increase"

God gave the law so that men could see the impossibility of saving himself and stand just by faith alone. See Gal 3:19-25 & Romans 3:9-31

Point two: "God has no govern over Him"

The foundation of God's government is His law. His law is an expression of His agape love.

The Bible states that "God is love" (1 John 4:8). Paul tell us that "love is the fulfillment of the law" Rom 13:10. The Greek word of our English word love is "agape". Therefore "God is agape". And "agape is the fulfillment of the law". God, therefore, is in harmony with His law. If not then why did Christ come to fulfill the law? (see Matt 5:17)

If God's law is meaningless to Him then why didn't He simply snap His fingers and say to all of us, "you are forgiven"? Instead Christ as God came and assumed our fallen, corporate life and for over thirty years lived a perfect life in obedience to it. And on the cross the justice of the law was satisfied because your old, fallen life from Adam died when He was crucified.

God is not above His own law. He is its Author.

God is above the Law, for e "ignored" the Law to spre life of David, and Jesus spared the woman in adulery!

 

[JonC]

-

he seemed to have lost his power to heal Timothy...

It was never his power to lose.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Being spiritually dead does not mean unable, and scripture never says it is [sic].

I think you'll find it does, 'You see, at just the right time, when we were powerless, Christ died for the ungodly' (Romans 5:6). Christians are never described as having saved themselves. We are God's workmanship (Ephesians 2:10).

 

[AndThisGospel]

He came to save the world from sin and the way that He did this fulfilled the Law.

Yes, and He did this by assuming our fallen life from Adam and living a perfect life of obedience to God's law. This fulfills the positive demands of the law, which is "obey & live".

But, since the humanity He assumed at the incarnation was our fallen life, indwelt by our bent-to-self, our life had to die. Hence "you died to the law in the body of Christ". Therefore the justice of the law was fulfilled.

I was not saved when Christ died.

Well, that's your opinion. Paul states that you were "justified unto life" when Christ died (Rom 5:18). Paul tells me you were "saved by grace", not faith. See Eph 2:5

The Biblical way to look at this is you were already saved by God "in Christ", but you hadn't accepted this truth.

I was saved when I believed in Him

You accepted your salvation "in Christ", but in Christ's holy history you already were saved by grace in Him.

God doesn't have to answer because of the Law.

Right, Adam did, but he failed. Because of his failure you were born in sin. You were born a sinner. God's law demands your death. How can God save you and be true to His own law that justly condemns you to death? By doing away with the law? IF so, Christ died for nothing.

I agree that Christ as God didn't need to keep the law, but Christ as the Son of Man did if He were to redeem the fallen race. That's why we have a gospel to preach....

He gives life and He takes it. Is God a murderer? because He takes life. Therefore the Law is not for God to Obey, It's for man to Obey.

Well, there are number of ways to look at this issue.

1. God doesn't kill. This one takes a lot of explaining...
2. God doesn't murder, but He kills. Murder is against the law, not killing.

I tend to go with # 1, but # 2 also has some merit. This really needs to be another topic, but it doesn't prove that God can do as He desires. Here's evidence that God is in harmony with His own law:

James states that "God cannot be tempted by evil". Therefore God cannot sin. What is sin? According to the NT it is "the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4.

I was born in sin but I wasn't a born sinner. and scripture doesn't say that I was.

David was born a sinner: "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Ps 51:5 You too must have be born a sinner! If not, when did you become a sinner, when you sinned outwardly? That means if you would have died before you committed sin you wouldn't have needed a Savior. Doesn't that sound a bit self-righteous?

 

[AndThisGospel]

God is above the Law, for He "ignored" the Law to spare the life of David, and Jesus spared the woman in adultery!

And God has spared you too, a sinner under the curse of the law. How? By answering the legal demands of the law "in Christ Jesus". That's the gospel - the good news for sinners.

 

[AndThisGospel]

"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Luke 5:32

By this Jesus didn't mean some are righteous. Clearly, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Rom 3:10 And even the believer has sinned (past tense) and in the present, continuous tense "falls short of the glory of God" (i.e., His agape love). Rom 3:23

So Jesus came to call sinners to repentance, not the self-righteous. The self-righteous think they don't need Christ....

The gospel is good new for sinners, but not the self-righteous. Everyone who is lost will be lost because they viewed themselves as good people.

 

[Yeshua1]

-

It was never his power to lose.

He had been blessed witht gift of healing, so not like today when we pray and ask God to heal directly, Paul was a true "faith healer"

 

[Yeshua1]

"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Luke 5:32

By this Jesus didn't mean some are righteous. Clearly, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Rom 3:10 And even the believer has sinned (past tense) and in the present, continuous tense "falls short of the glory of God" (i.e., His agape love). Rom 3:23

So Jesus came to call sinners to repentance, not the self-righteous. The self-righteous think they don't need Christ....

The gospel is good new for sinners, but not the self-righteous. Everyone who is lost will be lost because they viewed themselves as good people.

All who are lost will be lost due to them being still found in their sins, and not found in Jesus, as t must receive by faith in order to get saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

And God has spared you too, a sinner under the curse of the law. How? By answering the legal demands of the law "in Christ Jesus". That's the gospel - the good news for sinners.

Every sinner must receiv Jesus thru fait in order to gave that "good news"

 

[AndThisGospel]

Every sinner must receive Jesus thru faith in order to gave that "good news"

What the sinner is receiving is something that has already been accomplished in the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ. The gospel is a completed work finalized at the cross. It's more than provisional.

 

[Yeshua1]

What the sinner is receiving is something that has already been accomplished in the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ. The gospel is a completed work finalized at the cross. It's more than provisional.

That happens at the time of the new birth, as even the Elect at one time were enemies of God!

No eternal justification, nor universal reconcialation...

 

[AndThisGospel]

I previously said:

What the sinner is receiving is something that has already been accomplished in the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ.

You said:

That happens at the time of the new birth,...

The new birth is not the gospel. The new birth is experiencing Christ or "the fruits of the gospel". If the fruits is what saves then you are presenting a subtle form of legalism.

 

[Yeshua1]

I previously said:

You said:


The new birth is not the gospel. The new birth is experiencing Christ or "the fruits of the gospel". If the fruits is what saves then you are presenting a subtle form of legalism.

The Gospel; becomes effective to a sinner when born again, as before that happens, still lost and still enemy ofGod

 

[AndThisGospel]

The Gospel; becomes effective to a sinner when born again, as before that happens, still lost and still enemy of God

The gospel has already justified all men unto life. So please do not tell me the gospel is meaningless until accepted. E.G., infants who die before the age of accountability are saved "in Christ" through grace. In fact anyone who cannot exercise faith towards Christ are in a saved condition.

For the rest of us who have reached the age of accountability a decision is required for or against "the truth as it is in Christ". For those who persist in rejecting the good news and harden their hearts they will remain under law and under the curse, which is the 2nd death.