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The Gospel is Conditioned on Christ's Finished Work Alone
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Problem is that if the person does not freely accept what Christ has done then God does not save Him.
So we do see a condition. Eph 1:13, Rom 10:9-19
KenH
Well-Known Member
God's elect believe after they are regenerated by the Holy Spirit, under the preaching of the finished work of Christ, and then granted the gift of faith in in the finished work of Christ and the gift of repentance of dead works.
So, yes, God's elect do believe, but they know they did not generate their saving faith in the finished work of Christ, it was given to them by the Holy Spirit.
So, yes, God's elect do believe, but they know they did not generate their saving faith in the finished work of Christ, it was given to them by the Holy Spirit.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I understand that is what you believe but since it is not what the bible says the question is why do you believe it?
KenH
Well-Known Member
Acts 13:48 As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I have to ask why do so many who hold to the calvinist view ignore the context in which a verse is found?
By doing so you continue to make mistakes by misunderstanding what the writer was saying. Your choice of Act 13:48 is a case in point.
You make the unsupported claim that they were given faith but if you had bothered to read the verse in it's context you would se that is a wrong understanding of the text.
The Gentiles and Jews had heard Paul's gospel message, those that accepted it and trusted in the one spoken of took that direction for eternal life, and believed. Act_13:26-52 is showing the contrast between the resistant Jews and the willing Gentiles and should be read in a way that places the responsibility for believing on the people, that the people positioned themselves either for eternal life by accepting the truth or for eternal death by rejecting it.
Had inclined themselves, ēsan tetagmenoi, may be either in the middle voice, as translated, or passive, had been inclined. In the middle voice the subject participates in the results of the action, as here (cf. Dana and Mantey, § 155). Note that it is said of the Jews, in Act_13:46, you yourselves are rejecting, apōtheisthe, in the middle voice; and of the believers in Act_13:48 : they inclined themselves, in the middle voice. And so we have here an antithesis between the Jews and believers. Predestinarians {calvinists} use this passage as a stronghold. Predestination is a Roman Catholic view brought to Protestantism: "This view began with Jerome who revised the old Latin rendering destinati or ordinati to praeordinati in order to make coming to faith and salvation the product of a predestinatory eternal decree. Calvin is the great exponent of the decretum absolutum…" (Lenski, Acts, p. 553).
There is no evidence that Luke had in mind an absolutum decretum of personal salvation. Paul had shown that God's plan extended to and included Gentiles. Certainly the Spirit of God does move upon the human heart to which some respond, as here, while others push him away. RWP
If you want to believe that God has to give a person faith then you should be honest and admit that is a man-made view and not what is found in the word of God.
KenH
Well-Known Member
What I proclaim is found from Genesis 1:1 all the way to Revelation 22:21.
And the apostle Paul long ago excoriated the false gospel that you proclaim.
Galatians 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Ken my gospel comes from the bible not from a false philosophy from the 4 th century.
You would do well to heed what Paul said in the verses you quoted.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Nope.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I expect you to disagree Ken as you have to hold to that false philosophy from the 4 th century.
You have believed what some men have told you is the truth rather than trust the word of God.
KenH
Well-Known Member
I hold to the gospel of the finished work of Christ, revealed from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21.
I can say, by God's free sovereign grace, as David said,
Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet,
And a light unto my path.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Ken I understand that you think you are holding to the truth's of God but you are reading them through the clouded lens of pagan philosophy.
Ken, it is my hope that you will actually trust the word of God as written and not as you have been mislead.
Calvinism - Augustinian Foundation
These influential philosophies ‘Stoicism, Neoplatonism, Gnosticism, and Manicheanism’ all gave life to Augustine’s later theology.
From the Stoics, there was assumed freedom that was ultimately “hidden within a mere façade of “free will .
From the Neoplatonists, a free choice meant that there is a need for the restoration “by divine infusion to restore the will.
Form Gnostics, “all works are predestined, discipline and abstinence effect nothing, and the elect are saved by knowing that they are saved.
From the Manicheans, man’s “‘enslaved will’ cannot choose – it is damned until unilaterally released” by God’s own initiative.
All these philosophies “requires the divine being to unilaterally awaken a “dead soul” who then only can respond to the divine person.
They also “require divine micromanagement,” “substitute the Jewish and Christian residual ‘imago Dei’, “teach humanities ‘free will’ was destroyed or died,” “a unilateral infusion of grace, faith and/or love.”
Do any of these sound familiar they should as these were the basis of augustine’s later theology that calvin and then later clavinists carried forward to today.
Those are the teachings of the TULIP/DoG.
The information is readily available to anyone that wants to find it.
KenH
Well-Known Member
I am holding to the gospel of Christ's finished work, revealed from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21.
God has not misled me. He sovereignly placed me under the teaching of the gospel of His dear Son, and the Holy Spirit regenerated me, and granted me the gift of faith in the finished work of Christ on my behalf and granted me the gift of repentance of the dead works that I had been trusting in.
I contributed absolutely nothing to my salvation - nothing that I thought, or said, or did had anything to do with it. My believing and repenting were gifts from Almighty God, not mere fallen human attainments.
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Hello Ken!
Brother, you keep suggesting that believing in Christ Jesus of our own free will is not a condition of salvation.
If we are chosen for salvation without our choice, as you believe, then God has definitely assigned the rest to Hell.
Why did Peter say that God is not willing for any to perish but that all should come to repentance?
God wants all men/women to be saved, but man makes the choice to believe or not believe in Christ, and most in this world will reject Him.
I just don't understand how you can believe the Calvinist theory/ Sovereign Grace, whatever you want to call it.
Rom. 10:13
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Ken you have been mislead.
When you state "I contributed absolutely nothing to my salvation - nothing that I thought, or said, or did had anything to do with it. My believing and repenting were gifts from Almighty God, not mere fallen human attainments."
Shows that you have not trusted what the word of God says but what some man has told you the word of God says.
Was John wrong
Joh 20:31 But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.
Was Paul wrong
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Was God wrong
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
We have to believe, God does not do it for us.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is what the Bible teaches. Election and reprobation are both Biblical truths.
Romans 9:18-21 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Read that verse in context. The Apostle Peter refers to "usward" - God's elect.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
The book of 2 Peter was written to believers, and must be read in that context.
2 Peter 3:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.
No, He doesn't. God desires to save all of His elect, chosen by Him before the world began and given to His Son to be their Surety - and God will save every one of them, without fail.
Ephesians 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
If God wanted all men/women to be saved, then all men/women would be saved. Otherwise, you are claiming that God is not all powerful and that God does not always obtain what he desires. If God cannot obtain everything that He desires, then He would be no different than the gods of Greek mythology or the "superheroes" in modern day Marvel movies.
Thankfully, the God of the Bible is NOT a puny, ineffective god.
That's a poor testimony to carry around, Ken, that God doesn't want everyone to be saved. God help us!
KenH
Well-Known Member
No, God has not misled me.
I trust God's Word. What I don't trust is the false gospel proclaimed by folks such as you.
I have believed. The Holy Spirit granted me the gift of faith in the finished work of Christ.
See my comment above concerning John 20:31.
See my comment above concerning John 20:31.
God did not believe for me; however, God the Holy Spirit did regenerate me and granted me the gift of faith in the finished work of Christ on my behalf and granted me the gift of repentance of the dead works that I had been trusting in.
KenH
Well-Known Member
The testimony of the finished and effectual work of the Lord Jesus Christ is never a poor testimony to carry around.