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The Gospel of Christ vs. The Gospel of John MacArthur

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by IfbReformer, Dec 5, 2003.

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  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    Hello, Elk:

    In fairness to IFBReformer, I said that, not him.

    Well, we have the accounts of the wise men who came looking for the Savior, and by all indications, they were not Jews but Gentiles.

    You have Cornelius, a Gentile, a Roman soldier, obviously not a Jewish convert (as some may say, based on Act 10:28) but who believed God when no man had taught him and to whom the Holy Spirit sent Peter, by necessity to teach Peter that there is now no distinction as much as to justify Cornelius' belief, that God has secured the salvation of all manner of men, Jews and Gentiles, and must be told the Good News of their salvation.

    You have John, a baby in his mother's womb, who by today's standards will be called a fetus, leaping with joy at the proximity of his God and Savior.

    These were all regenerated souls. Then also, how to explain Enoc, Noah, Moses, Aaron, Miriam, Rahab, Ruth, Esther, the prophets, the saints of the Old Testament ?

    They had eyes to see, and ears to hear, which are signs of a regenerate soul, therefore they believed and looked forward to the cross, whence their salvation will be manifested, for deep in their regenerate souls they understood that the sacrifices and offerings commanded by Jehovah were but pictures and types and shadows that were all to be fulfilled in Christ here in time.

    Contrast that to the hardened hearts and blinded spiritual eyes of the religious leaders of their time and of Jesus' time.
     
    #21 pinoybaptist, Dec 7, 2003
  2. Tractster

    Tractster New Member

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    This definition is even better than the one given by Charles Ryrie in "So Great Salvation."

    Great job, Ransom.

    Roscoe
     
    #22 Tractster, Dec 8, 2003
  3. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer New Member

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    Hello, Elk:

    In fairness to IFBReformer, I said that, not him.

    Well, we have the accounts of the wise men who came looking for the Savior, and by all indications, they were not Jews but Gentiles.

    You have Cornelius, a Gentile, a Roman soldier, obviously not a Jewish convert (as some may say, based on Act 10:28) but who believed God when no man had taught him and to whom the Holy Spirit sent Peter, by necessity to teach Peter that there is now no distinction as much as to justify Cornelius' belief, that God has secured the salvation of all manner of men, Jews and Gentiles, and must be told the Good News of their salvation.

    You have John, a baby in his mother's womb, who by today's standards will be called a fetus, leaping with joy at the proximity of his God and Savior.

    These were all regenerated souls. Then also, how to explain Enoc, Noah, Moses, Aaron, Miriam, Rahab, Ruth, Esther, the prophets, the saints of the Old Testament ?

    They had eyes to see, and ears to hear, which are signs of a regenerate soul, therefore they believed and looked forward to the cross, whence their salvation will be manifested, for deep in their regenerate souls they understood that the sacrifices and offerings commanded by Jehovah were but pictures and types and shadows that were all to be fulfilled in Christ here in time.

    Contrast that to the hardened hearts and blinded spiritual eyes of the religious leaders of their time and of Jesus' time.     </font>[/QUOTE]pinoybaptist,

    Cornelius was being regenerated before Peter visited him, we agree on that. That is why he was seeking out God. But he was not saved till Peter came and gave him the Gospel he believed.

    What about John in his mother's womb? Just because he leeped with joy does'nt mean he was saved yet. It was certainly a supernatural event caused by God and he knew John would be saved and be one of the greatest prophets to ever live.

    What about the Old Testament saints? This is a common and probabably the biggest argument Primitive Baptists make.

    Here is an easy answer to this seemingly unbeatable argument:

    speaking of Old Testament saints the writer of Hebrews says:

    "13All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth."

    When you see something from a distance it is not as clear is it? They could not see all the details and even Old Testament saints at different points knew different things.

    They placed their faith and trust in God, not fully understanding what stood before them in the distance was Son of God and that he would die on a Roman(and empire that did not even exist yet) cross and pay for their sins.

    It is very clear in scripture, that throughout the ages man was only responsible for what God had revealed up to that point.

    But now Christ has been revealed, and all men are responsible for that.

    John 20:31(NIV)
    "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."

    John 1:12(NIV)
    "Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God–"

    John 3:18(NIV)
    "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

    Acts 4:12(NIV)
    12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

    1 Corinthians 6:11(NIV)
    And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

    1 John 2:12(NIV)
    I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.

    We have eternal life in the name of the Son of God. We must believe in our hearts that he died and rose again for our sins.

    Sir it is clear from the scriptures that "there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." - we must be saved in Jesus Name or we are not saved at all.

    Unfortunately, Primitive Baptist salvation theology believes salvation takes place because of regeneration, but regeneration is only the tool that brings us to the belief that saves us.

    And there is no such thing taught in scripture as a 'timely' and 'eternal' salvation. There is only one.

    IFBReformer
     
    #23 IfbReformer, Dec 8, 2003
  4. Bethelassoc

    Bethelassoc Member

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    I keep reading from pinoybaptist about John the Baptist leaping for joy in his mother's womb, as if this means to say that this is the norm.

    Remember, John the Baptist was not just an example of some local yokel, but Christ said that there was not a man, born of woman, greater than John, who was the "herald" of Christ.
     
    #24 Bethelassoc, Dec 18, 2003
  5. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    :confused: :rolleyes: duh ??
     
    #25 pinoybaptist, Dec 18, 2003
  6. Bethelassoc

    Bethelassoc Member

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    pinoy says:
    Good answer.

    If you are going to use scripture to back up your point, use it within its context; otherwise, it doesn't matter.

    Maybe I should elaborate, or maybe I'll receive more emoticons!

    Your (pinoybaptist) use of John the Baptist doesn't matter in your defense. What does it matter that John leaped in the womb based on your beliefs??
     
    #26 Bethelassoc, Dec 18, 2003
  7. steveo

    steveo New Member

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    I have read many of Macarthurs materials but haven't read this book. What He always has taught was that when we are saved there will be works: not that works save you. They are the byproduct of salvation.(James2:14-17)
    Also, check out biblebb.com for more Macarthur stuff and material on the seeker sensitive approach.

    ps This is my first post here, so be nice [​IMG]
     
    #27 steveo, Dec 22, 2003
  8. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Are ya'll discussing the same John Macarthur in this piece?

    source
     
    #28 LadyEagle, Jan 13, 2004
  9. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Ya know, ignorance is only a virtue in certain wacky circles.

    John MacArthur believes that there is nothing magical and mystical about the blood. According to the plain teaching of Scripture, it is ordinary human blood, from the only perfect being.

    In another thread, some mystics are trying to ignore the bible and teach that his blood was divine? Whatever that is.
     
    #29 Daniel David, Jan 13, 2004
  10. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    some "mystics" actually believe the virgin birth, too. Imagine that. :rolleyes:
     
    #30 LadyEagle, Jan 13, 2004
  11. steveo

    steveo New Member

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    Go to Biblebb.com or Grace to you to see what he believes.
    Steve
     
    #31 steveo, Jan 13, 2004
  12. russell55

    russell55 New Member

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    Nothing "mystical" about the virgin birth. It is the clear teaching of scripture.
     
    #32 russell55, Jan 13, 2004
  13. russell55

    russell55 New Member

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    Steveo,

    I wish you'd repost what you had posted. It was very informative....
     
    #33 russell55, Jan 13, 2004
  14. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Yes, me, too. I looked for it and it was gone. Please repost. Inquiring minds want to know. [​IMG]
     
    #34 LadyEagle, Jan 13, 2004
  15. steveo

    steveo New Member

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    It was just from the questions and answers on www.biblebb.com under "Could you clarify the issue with blood?"
    I took it off because I wasn't sure of copyright,
    etc...
     
    #35 steveo, Jan 13, 2004
  16. Ron Johnson

    Ron Johnson New Member

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    J.M. attacks the heresy of "easy believism". EB is 20th century doctrine.It is a diabolical doctrine that is undoubtedly sending alot of people down the wrong road thinking they are saved.Just raise your hand,saved,sealed and on your way to heaven kept till the day of redemption. [​IMG] Whoever it was that said J.M. was teaching arminian penticostalism dosen't have a clue what he is talking about. I'm an ex-penticostal.Go back before this past century and you will find everybody teaching what J.M. does.Get your head out of dallas theo..Go back to the puritans and the reformers. Pink,Loyd-Jones,Hodge they all teach what J.M. teaches. So lets wake up people and get your head out of dallas theo. and finneys theo. [​IMG] 1Peter 1:5
     
    #36 Ron Johnson, Jan 13, 2004
  17. Tractster

    Tractster New Member

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    Martin Luther was also accused of easy believism. Of course, Chuck Swindoll points this out in "Grace Awakening."

    Roscoe

    P.S. I'd love to read how you came out of the Pentecostal faith.
     
    #37 Tractster, Jan 14, 2004
  18. Ron Johnson

    Ron Johnson New Member

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    Trackster-----I don't want to start another line of thought so I will email you. 1Peter 1:5
     
    #38 Ron Johnson, Jan 14, 2004
  19. Tractster

    Tractster New Member

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    OK. Thanks.

    Roscoe
     
    #39 Tractster, Jan 14, 2004
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