"The Gospel" - What Is It?

[JonC]

Romans 6:18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Romans 6:22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

(emphasis mine)

I'm not saying we were freed from sin.

I was addressing an erroneous definition of "ransom". Ransom (in the verse in question) speaks of the price. Ransom does not mean "set free".

We need to focus on God's Word rather than interpreting every verse through a theology (even if that theology is correct).

 

[JonC]

Matthew 20:28 even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

(emphasis mine)

Strong's - to liberate many from the misery and penalty of their sins.

Ah....you are a Strongs guy. Not many of thise left anymore. But you are wrong.

Ransom can mean a price paid in order to liberate another (of course). BUT it can also mean a price paid for another.

 

[Silverhair]

To ransom means to set free. Christ purchased the Church (the Body of believers, His beloved, the Elect and so forth) with his own blood. Christ loved the Church, and gave himself up for her. He did not die for the Church and everyone else. Christ purchased their pardon. Again, he justifies and intercedes for them only. It is a particular redemption --not a vague, indiscriminate one.

You talk a so so game but can you back it up.

You claim a particular redemption so I would have to conclude that you do not have these verses in your bible or perhaps you just ignore them.

Who did Christ Jesus die for:
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1Ti 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Who was He a ransom for:
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

Why did He die for us:
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

So unless you are going to claim that only your so called "elect", those that are of your particular redemption were ungodly sinners that would mean the Christ Jesus was a ransom for all mankind. If you say that He only died for your particular elect then we would have to conclude that the rest of humanity were not ungodly sinners. Now that is really going to cause you problems explaining why all those people are not saved.

So it would seem that your particular redemption falls flat.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Save your liberal redefinition of words to justify your bogus view.

Folks, note that 2 Peter 2:1 was not addressed. Scripture is clear, Christ bought, ransomed, purchased those never to be saved. Full Stop. The purchase provides the means of their salvation according to God's purpose. Step One of the Gospel Two Step.

Your entire post is absurd.

Christ did not purchase those who are not his own. He did not ransom those going to Perdition. Christ does not justify the eternally damned. Christ does not intercede for those whom is reserved everlasting doom and separation from himself!

 

[RipponRedeaux]

So unless you are going to claim that only your so called "elect", those that are of your particular redemption were ungodly sinners that would mean the Christ Jesus was a ransom for all mankind. If you say that He only died for your particular elect then we would have to conclude that the rest of humanity were not ungodly sinners. Now that is really going to cause you problems explaining why all those people are not saved.

So it would seem that your particular redemption falls flat.

Your false premise yields a false conclusion.

Of course everyone born is an ungodly sinner. However, out of that mass of humanity Christ, before the foundation of the world, chose those that would be in him. The elect are from among every tribe, language, nation and people. It is those folks --the Church, the Body of Christ, the beloved, the sheep, his possession, that he died for --and them only.

 

[tyndale1946]

"Born from above" is a rebirth. We are not initially born from above but born "of Adam".

I never got the "born from above" vs "reborn" debate.
There are places (like in Luke) where ἄνωθεν means anew. But there are places where ἄνωθεν mean top. And places where ἄνωθεν means from above.


Nicodemus obviously understood Jesus' words to indicate a rebirth (or he wouldn't have asked how one could reenter his mother's womb). Also, being born from above is being reborn (born of the Spirit rather than flesh). And since ἄνωθεν also means anew or again, I'm not sure there are any grounds upon which to argue except personal preference.

So, not arguing against using "born from above". It just seems a very useless debate (if I had a hill upon which to die, it wouldn't be that one).

Jon that's a hill I would gladly die on because its all a work of God... Born from above!... If I die and I'm not, I'm not going anywhere, well not anywhere I want to be... Brother Glen

 

[Silverhair]

Your false premise yields a false conclusion.

Of course everyone born is an ungodly sinner. However, out of that mass of humanity Christ, before the foundation of the world, chose those that would be in him. The elect are from among every tribe, language, nation and people. It is those folks --the Church, the Body of Christ, the beloved, the sheep, his possession, that he died for --and them only.

Do you really not read a post before you start to answer it? You obviously do not trust scripture or you just ignore what it says. You have fallen into the trap of trusting man to tell you what the bible says.

If we were to go by your logic that Christ Jesus only died for the ones you listed then logically only they were ungodly sinners. That is who the bible says He died for so logically everyone else were not ungodly sinners.

Who did Christ Jesus die for:
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1Ti 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

So you even agree that all mankind were ungodly sinners so why do you then say that He did not die for ungodly sinners. Do you think the Holy Spirit got it wrong or did not know what He was talking about?

I find it amazing that you claim to trust some parts of the bible but deny others. So really it is not the bible you trust but yourself.

 

[JonC]

Jon that's a hill I would gladly die on because its all a work of God... Born from above!... If I die and I'm not, I'm not going anywhere, well not anywhere I want to be... Brother Glen

But if one is not born again then they cannot be born from above. Just being born flesh doesn't cut it. One must be born of the Spirit.

 

[tyndale1946]

But if one is not born again then they cannot be born from above. Just being born flesh doesn't cut it. One must be born of the Spirit.

Well let me know when you can control the wind?... Here is something for you to chew on Nicodemus when he met Christ was a born again law keeper... Jesus didn't tell Nicodemus he needed to be born again, he was surprised he didn't know it already, being he was a Master In Israel, he was ignorant of the fact, he told him how it was done... Did Nicodemus love God?... Brother Glen

1 John 4: 7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

[JonC]

Well let me know when you can control the wind?... Here is something for you to chew on Nicodemus when he met Christ was a born again law keeper... Jesus didn't tell Nicodemus he needed to be born again, he was surprised he didn't know it already, being he was a Master In Israel, he was ignorant of the fact, he told him how it was done... Did Nicodemus love God?... Brother Glen

1 John 4: 7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

I don't believe Nicodemus was born again when he met with Jesus. Scripture describes two "births" - born of the flesh and born of the Spirit.

I don't think Nicodemus was born of the Spirit in need of being born from above. In fact, by His comments Nicodemus had only considered one birth - born of the flesh through his mother.

 

[tyndale1946]

I don't believe Nicodemus was born again when he met with Jesus. Scripture describes two "births" - born of the flesh and born of the Spirit.

I don't think Nicodemus was born of the Spirit in need of being born from above. In fact, by His comments Nicodemus had only considered one birth - born of the flesh through his mother.

Nicodemus tried to explain something that is spiritual by using a natural interpretation, he was born of God... You mean to tell me being a Master teacher is Israel and teaching others about God and keeping the law he was not born again?... So I guess those who of old and were moved by the Holy Spirit to write were also not born again?... Were any in the OT born again or just those in the NT?... Born of God alone just like the wind... Brother Glen

 

[Van]

Your entire post is absurd.

Christ did not purchase those who are not his own. He did not ransom those going to Perdition. Christ does not justify the eternally damned. Christ does not intercede for those whom is reserved everlasting doom and separation from himself!

Your entire post is absurd.

Christ did purchase those who will never be His own, 2 Peter 2:1. He did ransom all people, 1 Timothy 2:6. No one said or suggested Christ justified the eternally damned, or that purchased and ransomed and bought results in justification. Christ did die for us while we were yet sinners.

It is true that the means of salvation is only available for humanity dung their physical lifetime, for if anyone dies unsaved, they receive eternal punishment.

Folks, note that 2 Peter 2:1 was not addressed. Scripture is clear, Christ bought, ransomed, purchased those never to be saved. Full Stop. The purchase provides the means of their salvation according to God's purpose. Step One of the Gospel Two Step.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes. I claim to be born again, that rebirth- born of the Spirit, born from above.

Halluelujah

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The footnote for Matthew 20:28 in the New English Translation(NET) has:

"The Greek word for ransom (λύτρον, lutron) is found here and in Mark 10:45 and refers to the payment of a price in order to purchase the freedom of a slave. The idea of Jesus as the “ransom” is that he paid the price with his own life by standing in our place as a substitute, enduring the judgment that we deserved for sin."

(emphasis mine)

remember He ransomed captive Israel.

 

[tyndale1946]

remember He ransomed captive Israel.

The problem I see as long as I have been here... A brother weather Arminian or Calvinist accuse one another of not belonging to God... I believe this and you believe that and that is indication that you are not saved... I believe that brethren that come on here are, maybe they want to toot their own horn or learn something or give their views but according to scripture and those who know me on here know I use scripture not speculation, to prove a point... I know this may shock some, others not so much but we were not saved in belief but unbelief... So argue with scripture... God will save ALL the Father gave to his Son both Jews and Gentiles and no one else, through the mercy of God not belief... Brother Glen

Romans 11: 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[kyredneck]

Do you claim to have a part in the heavenly birth?

Yes. I claim to be born again, that rebirth- born of the Spirit, born from above.

...lol, left myself wide open for that one...

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

...lol, left myself wide open for that one...

I think your trying to ask the brother if he had an active roll in his salvation

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The problem I see as long as I have been here... A brother weather Arminian or Calvinist accuse one another of not belonging to God... I believe this and you believe that and that is indication that you are not saved... I believe that brethren that come on here are, maybe they want to toot their own horn or learn something or give their views but according to scripture and those who know me on here know I use scripture not speculation, to prove a point... I know this may shock some, others not so much but we were not saved in belief but unbelief... So argue with scripture... God will save ALL the Father gave to his Son both Jews and Gentiles and no one else, through the mercy of God not belief... Brother Glen

Romans 11: 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Look, I’m not looking for a fight ( even though I enjoy them) nor am I looking to demean anyone…but I won’t tolerate insults from anyone. I’m sure you don’t like it when someone refers to PB’s as Hyper Calvinists as well as other insults. Then I’m all in.

 

[tyndale1946]

...lol, left myself wide open for that one...

I don't think you did... So Jon when did that occur?... Brother Glen

 

[JonC]

I think your trying to ask the brother if he had an active roll in his salvation

I am on the active roll for salvation.