The great deceiver

[Carico]

It doesn't appear that many people here know what being deceived means. it does not mean:

1) That one knows he's being deceived
2) That one freely chooses to be deceived

Being deceived means that one actually believes the deception. Thus, Eve ate the fruit because Satan deceived her into believing she would become like God. So no one freely chooses to reject God so he can spend an eternity in hell because he loves hell more than heaven.

Unbelievers are deceived into believing that there is no hell and that Jesus is not the way to God. That is not a free choice, it is a deception. That's why Satan is called the great deceiver because he leads people to believe that the truth is a lie and that lies are the truth.

That's also why 2 Corinthians 4:4 says; "For the god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ."

But God holds us accountable because we have knowledge of his commandments and laws. But knowledge is not the same as belief. Atheists have knowledge of what God says, but they do not have the capacity to believe it because Satan has deceived them into believing that God does not exist and that there is no hell or heaven. But since no one but God knows who his elect are, then no one can say that God is not drawing him which makes everyone without excuse.

 

[Amy.G]

Does God cause us to sin?

 

[Allan]

It doesn't appear that many people here know what being deceived means. it does not mean:

1) That one knows he's being deceived
2) That one freely chooses to be deceived

Being deceived means that one actually believes the deception.

Umm... The word 'decieved' here actaully means the same thing as blinded.

So no one freely chooses to reject God so he can spend an eternity in hell because he loves hell more than heaven.

Acatully, scripture speaks to the contrary.
Rom 1:18-32 states, they knowing the truth trade it for a lie, and knowing that doing such things are worthy of death still do so and enjoy the company of those who do likewise. It is for THIS reason God gives them over to a reprobate mind. This, after He has revealed His truths to them (sin & righteousness), and after they knew about God and the judgment of God.

2 Thes 2:10-12 states that they did not receive/take to theselves the truth that is able to save them. And for this reason God sends them a strong delusion to the lie (their lie) so that they will be condemned who did not believe/receive the truth, but has pleasure in unrighteousness.

Prov 1:23-33 states that God has poured out His Spirit upon them to make known His words. He called but they refused, He stretched out His arms but no one cared. They hated knowledge and did not choose the fear of the Lord. Therefore in His 'turning away' they will be slain, but those who listen and will believe will dwell in safety.

Unbelievers are deceived into believing that there is no hell and that Jesus is not the way to God. That is not a free choice, it is a deception.

No, they KNEW the truth but rejected it and God gave them over to their own lie. They were blinded or hardened. And guess what? If they hear God's voice and harden their hearts they will be blind to the truth from then on.

That's why Satan is called the great deceiver because he leads people to believe that the truth is a lie and that lies are the truth.

First, where is Satan called the Great Deceiver? I know he is called the deceiver but where is he called the 'great deceiver'?

Secondly, I don't disagree that satan is at work giving alternitives for those truths God reveals to every man. However Satan does not make men reject the gospel nor does scripture state that the people did not understand those truths approprietly. If God is the one revealing them then they are revealed perfectly and absolutely to whomever He reveals them. But the fact is, according to those few verses I quoted amoung many, is that men knowing the truth (as opposed to what is a lie) can and do reject it for or to continue in their own unrighteousness.

But God holds us accountable because we have knowledge of his commandments and laws.

No, knowledge of the Law does not make one accountable and Paul addresses this chapter 2 since not everyone knows of or has access to the Law. Therefore Paul states they are a Law unto themselves. However it is not the 'law' that makes man accountable but God revealing His truths to man so there can be no mistake what has been rejected. Thus through nature God personally is revealing Himself, through the Law, and through mans conscience. All of these means God uses to reveal His basic truths to man (sin, righteousness, and the judgment to come) and all of which only spiritually understood. It is for that very reason one of the Spirit of God's ministries is to convict the world of sin, righeousness, and His judgment to come.

Atheists have knowledge of what God says, but they do not have the capacity to believe it because Satan has deceived them into believing that God does not exist and that there is no hell or heaven.

Actaully this is not true scripturally as I have show above in many passages. They choose not to believe the truths God has revealed and which they 'know'/understand. They in fact have the capicity to believe so long as God the Holy Spirit is working on them because it is only through Him spiritual truths can even be known at all. They first reject the truth, and then are hardened or blinded from that point onward being kept there by satan. We know this because the passage you quote states satan is blinding 'unbelievers' people who have rejected the truth. I have given multiple passages that state exactly 'when' a person becomes blinded and is maintained in that blindness - because of unbelief.

But since no one but God knows who his elect are, then no one can say that God is not drawing him which makes everyone without excuse.[/QUOTE]

 

[Carico]

Does God cause us to sin?

Isaiah 54;16, "For I the Lord have created the destroyer to work havoc..." Romans 11:32, "for God bound all men over to disobedience so he can have mercy on them all."

God has complete control over Satan. He can bind him in an instant. So since God himself cannot commit evil, he uses Satan to entice people into disobedience so only God himself can redeem them as Romans 11:32 explains. No sin, no mercy, no good no evil.

 

[preachinjesus]

God has complete control over Satan. He can bind him in an instant. So since God himself cannot commit evil, he uses Satan to entice people into disobedience so only God himself can redeem them as Romans 11:32 explains. No sin, no mercy, no good no evil.

Wow I completely disagree with this.

 

[donnA]

Isaiah 54;16, "For I the Lord have created the destroyer to work havoc..." Romans 11:32, "for God bound all men over to disobedience so he can have mercy on them all."

God has complete control over Satan. He can bind him in an instant. So since God himself cannot commit evil, he uses Satan to entice people into disobedience so only God himself can redeem them as Romans 11:32 explains. No sin, no mercy, no good no evil.

God in no way entices people in to sin, this is not scriptural.

 

[Carico]

God in no way entices people in to sin, this is not scriptural.

I just quoted what scriptures says. That's from God. And I also told you that God himself cannot commit sin nor entice people to sin. He lets Satan do that as he did with Job. So read the bible if you want to know who God is instead of making up a god of your imagination.

 

[Amy.G]

God has complete control over Satan. He can bind him in an instant. So since God himself cannot commit evil, he uses Satan to entice people into disobedience so only God himself can redeem them as Romans 11:32 explains. No sin, no mercy, no good no evil.

Does God tell Satan to put evil thoughts in my mind? Does God tell Satan "go and make that person sin"? Does God command Satan to "kill, steal, and destroy"?

What is the difference between God "using" Satan to entice people and doing the enticing Himself?

What you are saying is that even though God "uses" Satan, God is still the cause of disobedience.

I'm not sure what doctrine you are following, but it is completely wrong on so many levels.

 

[Winman]

God makes man responsible for being deceived or not. So it is obviously within a man's control.

Deut 11:16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;

And how does God instruct them so that they will not be deceived? By the scriptures.

Deut 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20 And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:

Jesus also warned people to take heed so that they would not be deceived.

Luke 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

Satan is a liar and can deceive a man. But if we take careful heed to God's Word we will not be fooled.

 

[Carico]

Does God tell Satan to put evil thoughts in my mind? Does God tell Satan "go and make that person sin"? Does God command Satan to "kill, steal, and destroy"?

Yes. Again, read the bible:

Isaiah 19:14, "The Lord has poured into them a spirit of dizziness; they make Egypt stagger in all that she does, as a drunkard staggers around in his vomit."

Job 12;24, "He deprives the leaders of the earth of their reason."

DT. 28:28, "The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness, and confusion of the mind."

Rev. 17:17, "For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule until God's words are fulfilled."

Romans 9:18, "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy and hardens whom he wants to harden."

2 Thess. 2:11, "for this reason, God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie..."

God also send Nebuchadnezzar against Israel and an evil spirit to Saul. In fact, the whole bible tells us that everything that happens on the universe is God's will. So God isn't just capable of foreknowledge, He is omnipotent as well. He sent David to kill his enemies, he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, so you bet God is the almighty who determines everything that happens on earth.

Lamentations 3:27, "Who can speak and have it happen if the Lord has not decreed it?"

So again, most people unfortunately don't read the bible so they make up a god of their imaginations who does what they want him to do instead of reading God's word to find out what He really does.

 

[Amy.G]

Carico, your posts are very disturbing to me in my spirit. That may sound crazy, but I don't know how else to explain it.

 

[Carico]

Carico, your posts are very disturbing to me in my spirit. That may sound crazy, but I don't know how else to explain it.

I'm just quoting scripture. I'm sorry that God's words are disturbing to your spirit. But maybe they should be. "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."

 

[Amy.G]

I'm just quoting scripture. I'm sorry that God's words are disturbing to your spirit. But maybe they should be. "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."

God's words do not disturb my spirit. They give comfort and peace. It's your words that disturb my spirit. Even the Devil quoted scripture.

 

[Carico]

God's words do not disturb my spirit. They give comfort and peace. It's your words that disturb my spirit.

Again, I just quoted scripture. But I'm flattered that you think that God's words are my words. But they're not. So I can't take credit for them any more than I can be blamed for them. Sorry. So just read and believe the verses I quoted as written and you can do that without me. :wavey:

 

[Carico]

Even the Devil quoted scripture.

The devil adds and subtracts words to God's word. I did not.

 

[Amy.G]

I asked you:

Does God tell Satan to put evil thoughts in my mind? Does God tell Satan "go and make that person sin"? Does God command Satan to "kill, steal, and destroy"?

You answered:

Yes. Again, read the bible:

Your words were "yes" God commands Satan to deceive people and make them disobedient to Him.


That is NOT God's word, but YOURS. You ascribe evil to God. That is what the Pharisees did when they accused Jesus of driving out the demons by the power of Satan. That sin was unforgivable.

 

[Carico]

So it is obviously within a man's control.

Wrong. If it were in man's control, then we wouldn't need the cross. Those of us who want to be perfect could be by our own effort. But we can't be as Romans 7:14-25, 8;20, and most of the NT explains which is precisely why we need a savior. We are in bondage to sin and have been since birth. So our accountability is no different than someone born with a disability or birth defect who has to admit it whether he likes it or not. The only difference is that only those whom God is drawing can come to the cross as Jesus tells us in John 6L64-64. But since none of us knows whom God is drawing, then none of us can say that we are condemned.

 

[Carico]

I asked you:




You answered:


Your words were "yes" God commands Satan to deceive people and make them disobedient to Him.


That is NOT God's word, but YOURS. You ascribe evil to God. That is what the Pharisees did when they accused Jesus of driving out the demons by the power of Satan. That sin was unforgivable.

And I demonstrated through scripture that my "yes" was correct. But if you're offended by my "yes" then I'll omit that and just leave the scripture that proved my "yes" correct. :wavey:

So should I omit the scripture I quoted as well since you think the scripture I quoted was blasphemy? or don't you know the difference between my words and God's words?

I'll make it easy for you: Isaiah 54:16, "For I the Lord have created the destroyer to work havoc.."

Those are God's words that you obviously think are blasphemy. So you have just committed the unforgivable sin.

 

[Amy.G]

And I demonstrated through scripture that my "yes" was correct. But if you're offended by my "yes" then I'll omit that and just leave the scripture that proved my "yes" correct. :wavey:

Scripture proves you are wrong.

 

[Carico]

Scripture proves you are wrong.

Show me scripture that says that God isn't in control of the universe. I've shown you much scripture that shows he is. So you've been proven wrong.

[attack snipped]