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The Great Whore is Religious Rome

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Walter

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"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

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“From about 1125 a mitre of another form and somewhat different appearance is often found. In it the puffs on the sides had developed into horns (cornua) which ended each in a point and were stiffened with parchment or some other interlining. This mitre formed the transition to the third style of mitre which is essentially the one still used today: the third mitre is distinguished from its predecessor, not actually by its shape, but only by its position on the head. While retaining its form, the mitre was henceforth so placed upon the head that the cornua no longer arose above the temples but above the forehead and the back of the head. The lappets had naturally, to be fastened to the under edge below the horn at the back. The first example of such a mitre appeared towards 1150. Elaborate mitres of this kind had not only an ornamental band (circulus) on the lower edge, but a similar ornamental band (titulus) went vertically over the middle of the horns. In the fourteenth century this form of mitre began to be distorted in shape. Up to then the mitre had been somewhat broader than high when folded together, but from this period on it began, slowly indeed, but steadily, to increase in height until, in the seventeenth century, it grew into an actual tower. Another change, which, however, did not appear until the fifteenth century, was that the sides were no longer made vertical, but diagonal. In the sixteenth century it began to be customary to curve, more or less decidedly, the diagonal sides of the horns. The illustration gives a summary of the development of the shape of the mitre.”

(Authoritative Source: 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia Online: MITRE)

For both you and Bob:

Here is an excerpt from: http://philologos.org/__eb-ttb/sect61.htm

"The two-horned mitre, which the Pope wears, when he sits on the high altar at Rome and receives the adoration of the Cardinals, is the very mitre worn by Dagon, the fish-god of the Philistines and Babylonians. There were two ways in which Dagon was anciently represented. The one was when he was depicted as half-man half-fish; the upper part being entirely human, the under part ending in the tail of a fish. The other was, when, to use the words of Layard, "the head of the fish formed a mitre above that of the man, while its scaly, fan-like tail fell as a cloak behind, leaving the human limbs and feet exposed." Of Dagon in this form Layard gives a representation in his last work, which is here represented to the reader (Fig. 48); and no one who examines his mitre, and compares it with the Pope's as given in Elliot's Horae, can doubt for a moment that from that, and no other source, has the pontifical mitre been derived. The gaping jaws of the fish surmounting the head of the man at Nineveh are the unmistakable counterpart of the horns of the Pope's mitre at Rome...."

Do a little more digging, 'Protestant'. It seems almost a pity to point out that that the mitre was originally almost flat, not pointed at all - &, Bob, that there is a difference between wearing a hat that looks vaguely like a fish's open jaws, & wearing an entire artificial fish-skin. The mitre is related to the academic cap - both are developments of a cap of Byzantine origin called in Latin camelaucum, which gave rise to the mitre, beret, & academic cap.

Dagon was in any case not a fish-god. The book this is taken from is 140 years old - it is badly out of date. Old books can be good for ideas, but not for archaeology; & this is a matter of interpreting archaeological data.


Again, the symbolism of the present day mitre is attached to pentecost when the flame of the Holy Spirit danced on their heads.

I remember when I was confirmed as a Catholic, the Bishop informed us that it also represents the bible by the way it folds, and the two tassels that hangs from the miter, representing the New Testament and the Old Testaments.
 
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
I must say, DHK, I have not heard of 'Chrislam' before reading your post. I did a little checking and read an article Rick Warren wrote. However, it does involve denying the deity of Christ, something that would involve changing two-thousand years of Catholic dogma. Not going to happen. As churches such as the Worldwide Church of God, LDS, Episcopal Church, Presbyterian Church USA, and on, and on, have changed their doctrines over the years, even the majority of members on this board have commented that the Catholic Church's Christology is solid. Actually the Catholic Church has never changed its doctrines. She has held fast. That is why so many reject her for not approving modern views of contraception, homosexuality, etc. What she does change however are her disciplines. Disciplines are changeable but doctrine is not changeable because they are truths revealed by God–such as the incarnation, Trinity, Virgin Birth, etc. But disciplines are practices the Church decides to use to help lead the faithful to a deeper Faith and relationship with Our Lord.

Go to Chrislam's own website:
[SIZE=-1]Mr. Camille Menassa

Director of “L’Orient- le Jour”, newspaper and CEO of the publishing house ‘L’Orient-le Jour”. He is a professor at Saint-Joseph University, Vice-President of the Arab World Cultural Council, member of the Executive Committee of the Press Order, in addition to many other responsibilities.

Jurist by education, Mr.Menassa has a long career in media and journalism in different Lebanese and international television stations and media organizations.
He represents the Greek Catholic Partriachate of Antioch and all the East. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
He is one of the few members of the committee at the top of this organization:
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The members of the Committee are appointed directly by the highest authority of their respective religious community whom they represent and to whom they report.

The members of the Committee are de facto members of the Arab Group for Islamic-Christian Dialogue, affiliated to the Middle East Council of Churches. Some are founding members of this Group.

The Committee meets on regular basis in order to deal with issues related to the Islamic-Christian Dialogue and joint matters ; in emergencies they keep their meetings opened in order to follow-up on field contacts necessary for specific actions in specific situations.

The actual members are listed below by order of the date they integrated the Committee.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
http://chrislam.org/members.html
[/SIZE]

Read a little about what the Catholic Church believes is necessary for true ecumenism. It doesn't involve the Catholic Church creating a new religion from some 'theological cafeteria' created by compromise with various Protestant denominations.
The RCC is like a chameleon. It changes colors with whoever it is with. The Pope welcomed Yasser Arafat into the Vatican, the world's greatest terrorist, and then he kissed the Koran (John Paul II). You talk a lot about works. Jesus said "You shall know them by their works." The acceptance of terrorism and Islam by the Pope is as good as an acceptance of a change in doctrine.
 
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Protestant

Well-Known Member
Another Gospel

ANY Catholic source I might provide is going to be brushed aside by anti-Catholics on this board like yourself. You consider any Catholic material 'propaganda' & 'Catholic brainwashing'.

"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."


“Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”(Unam Sanctum, Bull of Pope Boniface 8)

“Faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith ... we teach and define that it is a dogma divinely revealed that the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra, that is when in discharge of the office of pastor and teacher of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith and morals to be held by the universal Church, by the divine assistance promised him in Blessed Peter, is possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer willed that His Church should be endowed for defining doctrine regarding faith and morals; and that, therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiffs are irreformable of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church.”(First Vatican Council 1870)
 

Walter

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Site Supporter
"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."


“Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”(Unam Sanctum, Bull of Pope Boniface 8)

“Faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith ... we teach and define that it is a dogma divinely revealed that the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra, that is when in discharge of the office of pastor and teacher of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith and morals to be held by the universal Church, by the divine assistance promised him in Blessed Peter, is possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer willed that His Church should be endowed for defining doctrine regarding faith and morals; and that, therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiffs are irreformable of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church.”(First Vatican Council 1870)

1 Tim. 3:15 - Who does Saint Paul say is the pillar and foundation of the truth? Not the scripture, but the Church. But for the Church to be the pinnacle and foundation of truth, she must be protected from teaching error, or infallible. She also must be the Catholic Church, whose teachings on faith and morals have not changed for 2,000 years. Protestants doctrines have swayed back & forth and changed so not to conflict with modern day thought. Check out the American Baptist Churches (even involved in Gaia worship in my parts!), The Episcopal Church, The United Church of Christ, Presbyterian Church, USA, Evangelical Lutheran Church, even Mennonites have lost their theological moorings.

Eph. 5:32- Paul calls the Church a "mystery." This means that the significance of the Church as the kingdom of God in our midst cannot be understood by reason alone. Understanding the Church also requires faith. "Church" does not mean a local assembly of believers. That is not a mystery! Baptists on this site view church as mere local assembly, but not the supernatural mystery of Christ physically present among us.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
1 Tim. 3:15 - Who does Saint Paul say is the pillar and foundation of the truth? Not the scripture, but the Church. But for the Church to be the pinnacle and foundation of truth, she must be protected from teaching error, or infallible. She also must be the Catholic Church, whose teachings on faith and morals have not changed for 2,000 years. Protestants doctrines have swayed back & forth and changed so not to conflict with modern day thought.
Check out the Ten Commandments, the one that says "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Taking into consideration the length of time the RCC has been in existence it is as much a terrorist organization as Islam. Pope Innocent III wiped out an entire nation of Albigensis--complete genocide. The wickedness of the popes who carried out the various crusades and inquisations throughout history can hardly be described for the depths of the evil of the human heart. The atrocities condoned at Goa by Francis Xavier--The Goa Inquisiton, are beyond description. Be baptized or face death!
That is how the RCC makes saints, eh? Bless the killers, the murderers, those who have blood on their hands--a description of the Great Whore of Revelation 17!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1 Tim. 3:15 - Who does Saint Paul say is the pillar and foundation of the truth? Not the scripture, but the Church. But for the Church to be the pinnacle and foundation of truth, she must be protected from teaching error, or infallible. She also must be the Catholic Church, whose teachings on faith and morals have not changed for 2,000 years. Protestants doctrines have swayed back & forth and changed so not to conflict with modern day thought. Check out the American Baptist Churches (even involved in Gaia worship in my parts!), The Episcopal Church, The United Church of Christ, Presbyterian Church, USA, Evangelical Lutheran Church, even Mennonites have lost their theological moorings.

Eph. 5:32- Paul calls the Church a "mystery." This means that the significance of the Church as the kingdom of God in our midst cannot be understood by reason alone. Understanding the Church also requires faith. "Church" does not mean a local assembly of believers. That is not a mystery! Baptists on this site view church as mere local assembly, but not the supernatural mystery of Christ physically present among us.

Bottom line os that Jesus NEVER made the church of Rome his Church!

RCC teaches errors/heresies, so cannot be the true church jesus said he would establish!

Tbe Church of Rome fits very well spiritual idolatry babylon of end times though!
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Bottom line os that Jesus NEVER made the church of Rome his Church!

RCC teaches errors/heresies, so cannot be the true church jesus said he would establish!

Tbe Church of Rome fits very well spiritual idolatry babylon of end times though!
Walter claims their doctrine has never changed. Their heresies accumulate and change throughout history. For example:
The assumption of Mary was never made official RCC doctrine until 1950.
The immaculate conception was never accepted by the RCC church until 1854.

It is an ever-changing church with its doctrine changing as the years roll by.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Walter claims their doctrine has never changed. Their heresies accumulate and change throughout history. For example:
The assumption of Mary was never made official RCC doctrine until 1950.
The immaculate conception was never accepted by the RCC church until 1854.

It is an ever-changing church with its doctrine changing as the years roll by.

and some of their doctrines, such as outlined in the Council of trent NEVER will change!
 

Walter

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Walter claims their doctrine has never changed. Their heresies accumulate and change throughout history. For example:
The assumption of Mary was never made official RCC doctrine until 1950.
The immaculate conception was never accepted by the RCC church until 1854.

It is an ever-changing church with its doctrine changing as the years roll by.

To say The Immaculate Conception was never accepted is not true. It WAS accepted and believed but had not been made official. You are correct that the assumption of Mary was not official dogma until 1950 but it was already believed from ancient times. To say that the doctrines of the Church Christ founded is ever-changing is a lie. You don't know the difference between dogma and Church disciplines. One cannot change, the other can and does. No doctrines have changed in 2,000 years, nor will they.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
To say The Immaculate Conception was never accepted is not true. It WAS accepted and believed but had not been made official. You are correct that the assumption of Mary was not official dogma until 1950 but it was already believed from ancient times. To say that the doctrines of the Church Christ founded is ever-changing is a lie. You don't know the difference between dogma and Church disciplines. One cannot change, the other can and does. No doctrines have changed in 2,000 years, nor will they.
To demonstrate you have an ever-changing doctrine is rather simple. One can take a number of different approaches to prove this. Here is one of them.
Those of us who believe the Bible and have it as our sole authority, our final authority of all faith and practice believe in a closed canon. It was closed when the Book of Revelation was written, with a warning and a curse to anyone who should add anything to it. There are 66 books to the Bible; no more no less. It is a closed canon.

The RCC believes it is an open canon--heresy. But so do the Mormons, the Charismatics, and almost all cults. You are in good company. The Mormons believe it is open so they can add the "Book of Mormon," as inspired. Charismatics (many of them) believe that the "words of prophecy" and sometimes "dreams and visions" they receive come directly from the Lord and are therefore inspired. It is an open canon.
You have the Pope and papal bulls--additional revelation.
You added the apocrypha--additional revelation.
Like the Charismatics and others the RCC has its own mystics who receive revelation from God. [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Padre Pio, who regularly whipped himself, wassaid to have received revelation from God. He was a mystic. So was Francis of Assissi. Instead of confining revelation to the revealed Word of God, the RCC receives its revelation from outside the Word of God. It believes in an open canon. Historically we go back and see how its doctrine has changed has changed over the centuries.
If anyone cannot see how the RCC doctrine has not been changing over the centuries then they are blind to the truth.
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Walter

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
To demonstrate you have an ever-changing doctrine is rather simple. One can take a number of different approaches to prove this. Here is one of them.
Those of us who believe the Bible and have it as our sole authority, our final authority of all faith and practice believe in a closed canon. It was closed when the Book of Revelation was written, with a warning and a curse to anyone who should add anything to it. There are 66 books to the Bible; no more no less. It is a closed canon.
The RCC believes it is an open canon--heresy. But so do the Mormons, the Charismatics, and almost all cults. You are in good company. The Mormons believe it is open so they can add the "Book of Mormon," as inspired. Charismatics (many of them) believe that the "words of prophecy" and sometimes "dreams and visions" they receive come directly from the Lord and are therefore inspired. It is an open canon.
You have the Pope and papal bulls--additional revelation.
You added the apocrypha--additional revelation.
Like the Charismatics and others the RCC has its own mystics who receive revelation from God. [FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Padre Pio, who regularly whipped himself, wassaid to have received revelation from God. He was a mystic. So was Francis of Assissi. Instead of confining revelation to the revealed Word of God, the RCC receives its revelation from outside the Word of God. It believes in an open canon. Historically we go back and see how its doctrine has changed has changed over the centuries.
If anyone cannot see how the RCC doctrine has not been changing over the centuries then they are blind to the truth.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

DHK, you like to accuse Catholics of "adding" Books to the Bible, and if I remember right, you accuse Catholics of adding them at the 16th c. Council of Trent. This is absolutely, 100% false. This Council, among other things, simply affirmed the ancient accepted books in the face of Protestant tinkering. Why does the Book of Daniel have more to it in the Catholic bible than in the Protestant bible? When was part of Daniel deleted and why? Are you really going to try to say that only part of the book of Daniel it actually inspired? Or are you going to say that the Catholics made up an alternative ending? What evil purpose did they have for that? What doctrine of devils do you find the Catholic Church needing to support by this so called, added ending? Nope, Protestants deleted part of the book of Daniel. Maybe you Protestants are the ones that the book of Revelation was talking about. Seriously, I think that passage in Revelation is referring to Revelation and not the entire bible. But, hey, I think if anyone has been guilty of 'taking away' from the bible it is easy to prove you Protestants are the ones that have been guilty of just that.

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How could Luther have relegated the deuterocanonical books to an appendix if they hadn't already been accepted in the first place? The Gutenberg Bible was printed in 1454 -- and it included the deuterocanonical Books. How could the Church have "added" them at the Council of Trent that began 91 years later? I defy any Baptist on this board to find a Bible in existence before 1525 that looked like a modern Protestant Bible! That in itself speaks volumes!

Most Protestant Bibles included the deuterocanonical Books until about 1815, when the British and Foreign Bible Society discontinued the practice! And note that Jews in other parts of the world who weren't around to hear the Council of Jamnia's decision in A.D. 100 include to this day those "extra" 7 books in their canon. Do some research on the canon used by Ethiopian Jewry.
 
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The Biblicist

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Why does the Book of Daniel have more to it in the Catholic bible than in the Protestant bible? When was part of Daniel deleted and why? Are you really going to try to say that only part of the book of Daniel it actually inspired? Or are you going to say that the Catholics made up an alternative ending? .

It does not take too much common sense to see that the Catholic addition of Daniel 13-14 simply does not fit with the rest of Daniel. The subject matter is out of place. The language is out of place. Furthermore, those entrusted by 1God with the scriptures rejected it as "scripture."

However, here are some reasons for rejecting the Old Testament Apocrypha from the Biblical Canon:

Why the Apocrypha Isn't in the Bible.

1. Not one of the apocryphal books is written in the Hebrew language (the Old Testament was written in Hebrew). All Apocryphal books are in Greek, except one which is extant only in Latin.

2. None of the apocryphal writers laid claim to inspiration.

3. The apocryphal books were never acknowledged as sacred scriptures by the Jews, custodians of the Hebrew scriptures (the apocrypha was written prior to the New Testament). In fact, the Jewish people rejected and destroyed the apocrypha after the overthow of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

4. The apocryphal books were not permitted among the sacred books during the first four centuries of the real Christian church (I'm certainly not talking about the Catholic religion. The Roman Catholic "Church" is not Christian).

5. The Apocrypha contains fabulous statements which not only contradict the "canonical" scriptures but themselves. For example, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in three different places.

6. The Apocrypha includes doctrines in variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection. The following verses are taken from the Apocrypha translation by Ronald Knox dated 1954:

Basis for the doctrine of purgatory:

2 Maccabees 12:43-45, 2.000 pieces of silver were sent to Jerusalem for a sin-offering...Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.

Salvation by works:

Ecclesiasticus 3:30, Water will quench a flaming fire, and alms maketh atonement for sin.

Tobit 12:8-9, 17, It is better to give alms than to lay up gold; for alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin.

Magic:

Tobit 6:5-8, If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore.


Mary was born sinless (immaculate conception):

Wisdom 8:19-20, And I was a witty child and had received a good soul. And whereas I was more good, I came to a body undefiled.

It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assasination and magical incantation.

No apocryphal book is referred to in the New Testament whereas the Old Testament is referred to hundreds of times.

Because of these and other reasons, the apocryphal books are only valuable as ancient documents illustrative of the manners, language, opinions and history of the East.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/apocryph.htm
 

Walter

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Site Supporter
Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus' statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.

Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.

Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus' statement "you will know them by their fruits" follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.

Matt. 9:36 - the people were "like sheep without a shepherd" is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.

Matt. 11:25 - Jesus' description "Lord of heaven and earth" is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.

Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus' reference to the "power of death" and "gates of Hades" references Wisdom 16:13.



Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.



Matt. 24:15 - the "desolating sacrilege" Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.



Matt. 24:16 - let those "flee to the mountains" is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.



Matt. 27:43 - if He is God's Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.



Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus' description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.

Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.

http://theorthodoxfaith.com/the-so-called-apocrypha/
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
To say The Immaculate Conception was never accepted is not true. It WAS accepted and believed but had not been made official. You are correct that the assumption of Mary was not official dogma until 1950 but it was already believed from ancient times. To say that the doctrines of the Church Christ founded is ever-changing is a lie. You don't know the difference between dogma and Church disciplines. One cannot change, the other can and does. No doctrines have changed in 2,000 years, nor will they.

Since the RCC holds to papal infallibity inregards to pronouncing official doctrines, and Cardinals ratifing dogmas, how can that be unchanging doctrines?

And since most core doctrines and practices are heretical, erronous, how can that be the true church?
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus' statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.

Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.

Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus' statement "you will know them by their fruits" follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.

Matt. 9:36 - the people were "like sheep without a shepherd" is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.

Matt. 11:25 - Jesus' description "Lord of heaven and earth" is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.

Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus' reference to the "power of death" and "gates of Hades" references Wisdom 16:13.



Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.



Matt. 24:15 - the "desolating sacrilege" Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.



Matt. 24:16 - let those "flee to the mountains" is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.



Matt. 27:43 - if He is God's Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.



Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus' description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.

Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.

http://theorthodoxfaith.com/the-so-called-apocrypha/

Do you deny the church of rome added in false books in order to have "inspired' sources to proof text catholic heresies, as could not be found in the inspired canonized books?
 

Walter

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Do you deny the church of rome added in false books in order to have "inspired' sources to proof text catholic heresies, as could not be found in the inspired canonized books?

How could Luther have relegated the deuterocanonical books to an appendix if they hadn't already been accepted in the first place? The Gutenberg Bible was printed in 1454 -- and it included the deuterocanonical Books. How could the Church have "added" them at the Council of Trent that began 91 years later? I defy any Baptist on this board to find a Bible in existence before 1525 that looked like a modern Protestant Bible! That in itself speaks volumes!
Most Protestant Bibles included the deuterocanonical Books until about 1815, when the British and Foreign Bible Society discontinued the practice! And note that Jews in other parts of the world who weren't around to hear the Council of Jamnia's decision in A.D. 100 include to this day those "extra" 7 books in their canon. Do some research on the canon used by Ethiopian Jewry. __________________
 

Zenas

Active Member
Do you deny the church of rome added in false books in order to have "inspired' sources to proof text catholic heresies, as could not be found in the inspired canonized books?
Of course he denies it. These books were written by Jews in Alexandria about 200 B.C. They were made a part of the Greek Bible called the Septuagint. The Septuagint was the primary Old Testament used in New Testament times. You may have noticed that New Testament passages quoting the Old Testament are similar to their Old Testament counterparts but have different wording and syntax. That is because our Old Testament is a translation of the Hebrew. However, those Old Testament quotes in the New Testament were taken from the Greek Septuagint and that is why they are slightly different.

Despite Biblicist's avowals that the Deuterocanonicals, a/k/a Aprcrypha, were not used by the real Christian church in the first four centuries, they were in fact used. To be sure, there were some who questioned their authenticity, Jerome for example. However, that dispute was put to rest with the publication of the Vulgate and never arose again until the time of Luther.
 

Protestant

Well-Known Member
No doctrines have changed in 2,000 years, nor will they.

So true when spoken of Rome's idolatry.

Idolatry permeates the very soul of Roman/Latin Catholicism, aka Mystery Babylon, whether it be

  • Goddess worship (Virgin Mary)
  • Crucifix worship (a dead man on a cross)
  • worship of the Dead (via relics, bones, corpses and graven images)
  • Papal worship
or
  • Eucharist worship

Without her immutable idolatry she can no longer be called 'The Great Whore' and 'Mother of all harlots.'

Therefore, her idolatry will ever remain until the return of Christ in judgment, at which time Babylon Rome will be destroyed forever:

“Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen.”
 

Protestant

Well-Known Member
1 Tim. 3:15 - Who does Saint Paul say is the pillar and foundation of the truth? Not the scripture, but the Church. But for the Church to be the pinnacle and foundation of truth, she must be protected from teaching error, or infallible. She also must be the Catholic Church

Mystery Babylon = Sacramental Babylon = Roman Catholicism

The ‘seat’ of the Roman Catholic Church is the ‘City of 7 Hills.’

The Church of Rome has 7 sacraments.

Their sacraments are ‘mysteries.’

Middle English: from Old French sacrement, from Latin sacramentum ‘solemn oath’ (from sacrare ‘to hallow,’ from sacer ‘sacred’), used in Christian Latin as a translation of Greek mustērion ‘mystery.’

Their Church is Mystery Babylon.

The Latin Vulgate uses the noun ‘sacramentum’ in translating the Greek noun ‘musterion’ [‘mystery’] in the text of Rev. 17:7 ---

17:7 ”et dixit mihi angelus quare miraris ego tibi dicam sacramentum mulieris et bestiae quae portat eam quae habet capita septem et decem cornua.”

17:7 “And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.”

Today Mystery Babylon is no mystery.

Christians have known and preached this truth for well over 1,000 years.

Their Catholic enemies attest to this fact.
 

prophet

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Mystery Babylon = Sacramental Babylon = Roman Catholicism

The ‘seat’ of the Roman Catholic Church is the ‘City of 7 Hills.’

The Church of Rome has 7 sacraments.

Their sacraments are ‘mysteries.’

Middle English: from Old French sacrement, from Latin sacramentum ‘solemn oath’ (from sacrare ‘to hallow,’ from sacer ‘sacred’), used in Christian Latin as a translation of Greek mustērion ‘mystery.’

Their Church is Mystery Babylon.

The Latin Vulgate uses the noun ‘sacramentum’ in translating the Greek noun ‘musterion’ [‘mystery’] in the text of Rev. 17:7 ---

17:7 ”et dixit mihi angelus quare miraris ego tibi dicam sacramentum mulieris et bestiae quae portat eam quae habet capita septem et decem cornua.”

17:7 “And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.”

Today Mystery Babylon is no mystery.

Christians have known and preached this truth for well over 1,000 years.

Their Catholic enemies attest to this fact.

This wasn't argued, for several centuries, by anyone.
 
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