Why would anyone with modest Greek language education insist they do? Is it an attempt to sanitize KJV blunders to uphold its ‘inerrancy’?
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The Greek in John 14:2--Mansions? Rooms? Dwelling Places? Homes?
- Thread starter InTheLight
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Why would anyone with modest Greek language education insist they do? Is it an attempt to sanitize KJV blunders to uphold its ‘inerrancy’?
Do you define the terms that you use and do you apply those terms consistently and justly?
Are you unaware of the fact that there were actual copying errors or textual corruptions including some significant ones in the Greek New Testament manuscripts used in the making of the Greek NT editions made by Erasmus, Stephanus, and Beza?
Do you try to suggest that the entire text of any Greek NT manuscript with even one textual error [an corruption] or with several textual corruptions is corrupt by use of the fallacy of composition? If so, a consistent, just application of your own reasoning would suggest that the KJV was translated from corrupted manuscripts
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
The KJV, for example, carries the Doctrines of Jesus Christ into it,
while the deliberate use of known corrupted manuscripts that had been tampered with, to aid in eliminating The Doctrines of Jesus Christ, where consulted to deliberately aid in eliminating The Doctrines of Jesus Christ, into most 'Modern Translations'.
They know that.
You know that.
while the deliberate use of known corrupted manuscripts that had been tampered with, to aid in eliminating The Doctrines of Jesus Christ, where consulted to deliberately aid in eliminating The Doctrines of Jesus Christ, into most 'Modern Translations'.
They know that.
You know that.
I'm amazed that a question regarding the correct translation of one greek word in one verse has turned into a KJV vs. other translation argument.
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Were you able to type that with a straight face?
These questions presuppose a knowledge of someone's motives.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Just 'God Breathed' Inspiration vs the words from the mouth of Satan and their reliance to and relationship to the meaning of Bible Words, like "mansions".
(there were manuscripts consulted by some 'translations' that were preserved because of their lack of use, since even Satan's crowd knew they were demonically poisoned and contaminated, without being Greek Scholars ).
By saying "God Breathed" you are translating the Greek word theopneustos in 2 Tim. 3:16. That is perfectly valid. That's what this thread is about: translation, not Greek texts. Once again, every single Greek manuscript has the same Greek word here.
The meaning of the Greek word for "mansions" has absolutely nothing to do with the mss problem and the doctrine of preservation. To say that "mansions" in John 14:2 indicates large, many-roomed homes is to read modern American English back into 17th century British English. Anyone who interprets our beloved KJV with modern American English is going to get some things wrong.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
[Rev 21:15-16 NASB] 15 The one who spoke with me had a gold measuring rod to measure the city, and its gates and its wall. 16 The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the city with the rod, fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal.
1500 miles x 1500 miles x 1500 miles = 3.375 BILLION cubic miles.
If the population of the New Jerusalem is 10 BILLION people (more than half the total number of people that have ever lived), then each person lives in an area of about 1/3 of a mile cube.
A 216 acre house/lot that is 140 stories tall!
(sounds like a "mansion" to me.)
Those figures don't matter in the slightest in interpreting John 14:2. What matters is what the verse actually says in the Greek, which is "dwelling place" or "abode." And there will be surely a lot more going on in the New Jerusalem other than places to live. There is the Garden of Eden restored, for example.[Rev 21:15-16 NASB] 15 The one who spoke with me had a gold measuring rod to measure the city, and its gates and its wall. 16 The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the city with the rod, fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal.
1500 miles x 1500 miles x 1500 miles = 3.375 BILLION cubic miles.
If the population of the New Jerusalem is 10 BILLION people (more than half the total number of people that have ever lived), then each person lives in an area of about 1/3 of a mile cube.
A 216 acre house/lot that is 140 stories tall!
(sounds like a "mansion" to me.)
But really? You want to live all alone in a 216 acre house/lot in the New Jerusalem? Not me. That would be a lonely Heaven.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
I'm all for "mansions", as simply a Place and Portion of The Glorious Presence of God in Heaven without sin, meaning, "Where I Am, There you may be, also", as Spoken by The virginborn Jesus Christ, Who is God, Eternal, and not, "a God", etc.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I never made that claim ... I only analyzed the room available in the Father's house for comparison to the modern definition of "mansion".
My conclusion is "able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think" ...
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
If you translate a Version of the Bible into English, I'll read it and use it and go with your word to express the Greek that the KJV has as 'mansions'.
Maybe, throw in a little, "up over the hilltops", for emphasis, to make everyone happy.
I appreciate that. Thanks for this post. I was actually approached about participating in a new English translation, but the person who approached me was more dynamic equivalence in approach, and so we couldn't agree on translation philosophy. Then one of my students gave me a shocked look and said something like, "May it never be!" since I've always promoted missionary translation, and even teach classes on it. So I'm sure I'll never participate in another English translation when there are hundreds already! We don't need another.
Do you try by use of a fallacy such as the fallacy of begging the question to claim that renderings in one English Bible translation--the KJV are entitled to be called "Bible words" while renderings in another English Bible translation are to be smeared as "words from the mouth of Satan"?
Do you forget or ignore the English renderings at John 14:2 in some of the pre-1611 English Bibles of which the KJV was a revision?
Do you suggest that the renderings in the pre-1611 English Bibles from which the Church of England makers of the KJV borrowed most of their own renderings were not Bible words? Would you suggest that the makers of the KJV borrowed words from the mouth of Satan when they borrowed some renderings from the 1582 Roman Catholic Rheims New Testament?
Do you try to claim that the words in the KJV are directly "God-breathed"?
Well, amen to that.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
In that case, the answer's, "residencies'.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
I don't remember anything about that.
Did I mention something about a KJV?
Other than that, what's wrong with you?
That will work.
Absolutely, and what "beyond all that we ask or think" tells me is that living in the presence of the God Who created the universe will be so much better than this world that we cannot begin to imagine it. And while scripture doesn't offer details on what our abode there will look like, I'm confident that being there will bring joy far beyond what owning any of this sinful world's mansions could provide.