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Featured The Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem. .....the Church

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Feb 22, 2016.

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  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Psalms 139 disagrees with you.
     
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  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Where? :D
     
  3. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    That's the British colony just above the U.S.A. ;) :D :)
     
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Isa continues....same theme...Gentiles grafted in;
    Isaiah 65King James Version (KJV)
    65 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

    2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;


    How did Paul see it? As future in the Millenium, or as happening right now in the gospel Millenium?
    20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

    21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

    Jesus revealed Himself to elect Gentiles who were not even seeking God.

    This is now.
     
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  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Just before that Paul quoted from Isa.again;
    15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

    16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

    52 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

    right before the Cross Zion and Jerusalem with no unsaved coming into it.


    6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

    7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

    Yes say unto Zion[the church]...thy God reigneth.....not is going to reign, but reigneth!
     
    #25 Iconoclast, Feb 24, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2016
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  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Alan P. Ross's comments, as recorded in the Bible Knowledge Commentary summarize Psalm 139 this way:

    God’s omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence are the subjects of David’s meditations in this beautiful psalm. In this psalm David asked God to examine him thoroughly to affirm his innocence. The psalm has four strophes of six verses each. The message progresses significantly from one subject to another. His first meditation is on God’s knowledge, that every aspect of his life was searched out and controlled by what the Lord knew. He then realized it was impossible to escape from such omniscient control, no matter how far or fast he might go, for God is everywhere. David then stated that God has such control over him because in His power He created Him secretly and planned his life with great care. On the basis of these meditations, David then affirmed his loyalty to God and prayed for God to prove him by examining him.

    IOW, it has nothing to do with God's kingdom, God's rule, etc. It is a Psalm of David extolling the attributes of God.
     
  7. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    He doesn't occupy any of those places, neither your house either.
    He sits on the right hand of God interceding for us. He still has a body. He is our Great High Priest.
    He will come again. But right now His ministry is intercessory, not that of a monarch.

    Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

    The throne of David is in Jerusalem, here on earth. Christ is not ruling yet.
    When he does, it will be the beginning of a rule that will not only last for a thousand years but will then be from henceforth even for ever.

    But for now:
    Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
     
  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    You are teetering on denying God's omnipresence DHK.
     
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  9. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    DHK, your beliefs are teetering upon modalism. Here's why.

    1) God is omnipresence, so therefore, if Christ(who is God) is not omnispresent, then He is not God.
    2) God is three in One. They are the same in essence, Being, unity, and to say Christ is not in those places only on the throne on His Father's right side is to say He is not omnipresent.
    3) God the Father has always occupied the throne, yet He is everywhere. To say that Christ is not the same is to say He is less than God His Father.

    I am not trying to falsely accuse you, but this is how you wording comes across to me. To say that Christ is not omnipresent right now, is not ruling right now, is to not have Him on par with His Father.
     
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  10. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Ever curtailing, mitigating, truncating...
     
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  11. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Christ is Jehovah. You do greatly err not knowing this, and for not recognizing He does rule the whole earth and universe.
     
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  12. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    From last night...

    So what part of earth does He not occupy?
    North Pole?
    South Pole?
    Mongolia?
    Saudi Arabia?
    Brazil?
    Argentina?
    Russia?
    China?
    Thailand?
    United Arab Emirates?
    He is all encompassing. Even in places He isn't worshipped, He is still God of the whole earth.
    By the way, Jehovah is Christ.
     
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  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    It is sometimes evident that a wrong view of any major portion of theology locks a person into tragic views and soon to be followed by error everywhere else.
    These errors link together as a spider web form a system of error that ensnares those who become entangled in it.
    We are witnessing such a phenomenon unfold in slow motion now:eek:Frowno_OUnsure
     
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  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    For my first few years as a believer I was taught that a passage like Isa 11 locked in a "literal" interpretation and no other view would work at all.
    As a consequence I would not see how it was possible for God to use metaphorical language that also had a literal meaning.....let's look..[something I did not do at first.
    Isaiah 11King James Version (KJV)
    Paul quotes this to comfort Gentile Christians now, during this Gospel Millenium;
    Here is language indicating a reverse of the curse in the Kingdom. It is spoken of as happening now to Gentiles who have come to the Light.....not off in the future somewhere else.




    A Highway for" the remnant".....that means there were saved and unsaved spoken of as co-existing openly.

    Here is the Highway in Isa35;
    35 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

    2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God.

    3 Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.

    4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.

    5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

    6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

    7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

    8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.


    9 No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:


    10 And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.


     
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  15. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    But you do falsely accuse me. Christ is omnipresent perhaps in a way we cannot understand. He indwells every believer, does He not? Yet at the same time he retains a physical body and sits on the right hand at the throne of God. How can a finite man comprehend an infinite God. That is what Psalm 139 is all about.

    Psalms 139:6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.

    Or do you have a greater mind than David?
     
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Did I deny that Christ is Jehovah?
    You do greatly err in assuming to believe what you do not know, and end up falsely accusing me.

    Christ is in heaven. Who rules this earth?
    2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    In the future Christ will come and set up His Kingdom as scripture so clearly declares. Christ is not ruling now. There would be no ISIS if he did. If this is your idea "of peace on earth good will to man," you are very much deluded.
     
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Did I say he isn't? My statement is not a denial. Let me make it more clear for you.
    Neither Jehovah nor Christ (who is Jehovah) has been or is called "the God of the whole earth." That will only happen in the Millennial Kingdom.

    Some here are so confused by basic English grammar that they jump to unwarranted conclusions.
    You do err not knowing the scriptures.
    2Cor..4:4 Satan is the god of this world.
     
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Okay you two. Real it in a bit. DHK is not a modalist and SG has not claimed to possess a mind greater than David's.

    Back to the discussion.
    I agree with that statement, for the most part. In fact I believe that the Kingdom, in its present manifestation, is not of this world at all with the obvious exception of Him reigning in our hearts.
    And here I will have to agree with SG. Christ is Jehovah. Jehovah is Christ. This can easily be demonstrated by comparing scripture with scripture.

    Isaiah, speaking of Jehovah said:

    Isaiah 40:3 The voice of one who calls out, “Prepare the way of Jehovah in the wilderness! Make a level highway in the desert for our God.

    John, speaking of Christ said:

    Matthew 3:3 For this is he who was spoken of by Isaiah the prophet, saying, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness, make ready the way of the Lord. Make his paths straight.”

    Then we can compare:

    Numbers 21:5 The people spoke against God, and against Moses, “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no bread, and there is no water; and our soul loathes this disgusting bread.”
    6 Jehovah sent venomous snakes among the people, and they bit the people. Many people of Israel died.

    But Paul attributes that to Christ:

    1 Corinthians 10:9 Let’s not test Christ, as some of them tested, and perished by the serpents.

    And lastly, but certainly not least:

    Genesis 2:4 This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made the earth and the heavens.

    John 1:3 All things were made by him (the word, Christ); and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Now you two play nice. Don't make me pull this car over! :D
     
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  19. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I agree with it too. I never denied. it.
     
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  20. blessedwife318

    blessedwife318 Well-Known Member
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    I guess you have missed Is 54:5
    For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.
    Also note that is in present tense not future. He IS the God of the whole earth.

    Is. 6:3
    And they were calling to one another: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory."
    Again present tense.

    1 Chro. 16:14
    He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.

    Ps. 47:4
    For God is the King of all the earth; sing praises with a psalm!

    2 Kings 109:15
    And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD and said: “O LORD, the God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.


    Just a few verse to show that yes God is the God of this world. He is the God of all the kingdoms of this world. Stop trying to pull Him from His rightful spot and put Satan in it.
    You err not knowing the Scriptures.
     
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