The Heresy of Negating Man's Will

[Rippon]

There really is some confusion here. No Calvinist has said here or elsewhere than people do not have wills. We don't negate man's will at all. We simply believe that people do not have free will. That is unless you have completely inverted its meaning.

It is really something to observe how much the notion of "free-will" is loved and spoken about so much by non-Christians. Mormons, in their theological works extoll it as much as John Wesley or Charles Finney ever did.

I was rewatching that Nicolas Cage movie --City of Angels earlier today. One of the characters around the 53 minute mark said something to the effect that "free will was one of God's most precious gifts to mankind."

A lot of movies have it as a major theme. It's funny how a fictional construct has been prized by so many non-Christians.

Hannity was interviewing James Dobson a few years ago. And in just the last 30 seconds of the spot Hannity asks him :"What do you think of free will Dr. Dobson?"

 

[convicted1]

And your Calvinistic glasses decides Jesus at some points displayed a character that was somehow less than God?? Really!!

Please do not put a spin on what I meant. Jesus is 100% God, yes or no? Yes. Yet, Jesus stated this....--`And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known -- not even the messengers of the heavens -- except my Father only'(Matt. 24:36 YLT)

and here He also said....--'And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known -- not even the messengers who are in the heaven, not even the Son -- except the Father.'(Mark 13:32 YLT)

Jesus stated only the Father knows the hour. Does Jesus not know the hour now that He is on the right hand of the Father in heaven?

John 14:9 - Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Willis? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father.

I just showed you that Jesus said that only the Father knows the hour in which He will close out time. Does Jesus not know the time it will end now that He is in heaven?

 

[Robert William]

Mark 10:17-22,

And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.


And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.


Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

Jesus came ONLY for the lost sheep of Israel, He was putting the Law to the dude in order to give him a true picture of where he stands in the eyes of God, and that is, he is guilty and condemned to Hell, nobody has ever been saved by works, it has always been by grace through faith.

 

[Robert William]

There really is some confusion here. No Calvinist has said here or elsewhere than people do not have wills. We don't negate man's will at all. We simply believe that people do not have free will. That is unless you have completely inverted its meaning.

It is really something to observe how much the notion of "free-will" is loved and spoken about so much by non-Christians. Mormons, in their theological works extoll it as much as John Wesley or Charles Finney ever did.

I was rewatching that Nicolas Cage movie --City of Angels earlier today. One of the characters around the 53 minute mark said something to the effect that "free will was one of God's most precious gifts to mankind."

A lot of movies have it as a major theme. It's funny how a fictional construct has been prized by so many non-Christians.

Hannity was interviewing James Dobson a few years ago. And in just the last 30 seconds of the spot Hannity asks him :"What do you think of free will Dr. Dobson?"

:thumbs:

Free will, Satan's doctrine destroying UZI, and it's so sad to see a majority of Christians deceived by it.

 

[DHK]

There really is some confusion here. No Calvinist has said here or elsewhere than people do not have wills. We don't negate man's will at all. We simply believe that people do not have free will. That is unless you have completely inverted its meaning.

Please clarify yourself. If man has a will, then by definition it must be free enough to choose between good and evil or it is no will at all. What kind of will does man have if it cannot make a choice?

 

[steaver]

Please do not put a spin on what I meant. Jesus is 100% God, yes or no? Yes. Yet, Jesus stated this....--`And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known -- not even the messengers of the heavens -- except my Father only'(Matt. 24:36 YLT)

and here He also said....--'And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known -- not even the messengers who are in the heaven, not even the Son -- except the Father.'(Mark 13:32 YLT)

Jesus stated only the Father knows the hour. Does Jesus not know the hour now that He is on the right hand of the Father in heaven?






I just showed you that Jesus said that only the Father knows the hour in which He will close out time. Does Jesus not know the time it will end now that He is in heaven?

There is quite a difference between Jesus limiting himself to this knowledge and Jesus limiting or changing his moral character. Wouldn't you agree? It is apples verses oranges.

 

[steaver]

Jesus came ONLY for the lost sheep of Israel, He was putting the Law to the dude in order to give him a true picture of where he stands in the eyes of God, and that is, he is guilty and condemned to Hell, nobody has ever been saved by works, it has always been by grace through faith.

Amen!! And Jesus loved him even though he went away and did not follow. Later, if he never repents and receives forgiveness, this same Jesus will be his wrath. The door will close.

 

[steaver]

:thumbs:

Free will, Satan's doctrine destroying UZI, and it's so sad to see a majority of Christians deceived by it.

Be very very careful brother. Unless you had a visitation from God Himself declaring this, then you could be calling God satan if you are wrong.

 

[OldRegular]

=OldRegular;2197007]I really don't care what the Manichaeans believed but what the Bible teaches

Sorry I didn't make myself clear... I agreed with Brother Willis comment but I didn't agree with the opening post... I would have said something but decided not to... Brother Glen... I may change my mind!

I am sorry. I understood what you were saying. Perhaps I was not as gracious as you were!

*********************

 

[OldRegular]

Did you somehow miss the word "Christian" in my post? :wavey:

Somehow I did! Shows that keeping late hours is unwise or that cataract surgery and old specs don't go together. Sorry!

Now about the rest of the story?

*********************************

 

[OldRegular]

Please do not put a spin on what I meant. Jesus is 100% God, yes or no? Yes. Yet, Jesus stated this....--`And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known -- not even the messengers of the heavens -- except my Father only'(Matt. 24:36 YLT)

and here He also said....--'And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known -- not even the messengers who are in the heaven, not even the Son -- except the Father.'(Mark 13:32 YLT)

Jesus stated only the Father knows the hour. Does Jesus not know the hour now that He is on the right hand of the Father in heaven?






I just showed you that Jesus said that only the Father knows the hour in which He will close out time. Does Jesus not know the time it will end now that He is in heaven?

Jesus Christ had to be speaking in His human nature. There is only One God and all three persons of the Trinity must be in perfect harmony at all times otherwise there would be what!!!!!!!!

***************************

 

[Iconoclast]

Please do not put a spin on what I meant.


That is what Steaver does Con 1....he just denied he does this in the other thread also.....that is why The Steaver is disqualified:thumbsup: Old habits die hard:thumbsup::wavey:

 

[steaver]

That is what Steaver does Con 1....he just denied he does this in the other thread also.....that is why The Steaver is disqualified:thumbsup: Old habits die hard:thumbsup::wavey:

Really brother?? After all the back and forth on your TULIP comments and giving you days if not weeks to clarify? And you simply doubled and tripled down, even quadrupled down standing by your first comments quote for quote? And all others on here seen your post trying to defend it and NOBODY came to your side to support your claims??

I don't know about "old habits", but certainly personal pride dies hard indeed!!! raying:

 

[Iconoclast]

Really brother?? After all the back and forth on your TULIP comments and giving you days if not weeks to clarify? And you simply doubled and tripled down, even quadrupled down standing by your first comments quote for quote? And all others on here seen your post trying to defend it and NOBODY came to your side to support your claims??

I don't know about "old habits", but certainly personal pride dies hard indeed!!! raying:

I do not need anyone to come to my defense because I never said quote for quote what you said that I said
when I asked you to prove it you could not...that is what i remember:laugh::laugh:

 

[steaver]

I do not need anyone to come to my defense because I never said quote for quote what you said that I said
when I asked you to prove it you could not...that is what i remember:laugh::laugh:

The memory is the first to go....:smilewinkgrin:

At this point I could produce the quote for quote once again, but everyone by now has seen it at least a few times and even though you remain in denial we all know what you believe by what you have said and have defended. Can't waste anymore time on it.....it is between you and the Lord:wavey:

 

[convicted1]

Jesus Christ had to be speaking in His human nature. There is only One God and all three persons of the Trinity must be in perfect harmony at all times otherwise there would be what!!!!!!!!

***************************

I agree. I was asking to show that the hypostatic union is a DEEP subject...

 

[steaver]

I agree. I was asking to show that the hypostatic union is a DEEP subject...

Did you consider my point Willis? There is a difference between Jesus limiting His knowledge to only what the Father reveals to Him while performing His ministry on earth between His conception until His glorification, and Jesus changing His very nature and moral character of being very God.

Of course you cannot objectively accept this because unless the rich young ruler is ONLY loved by Jesus through Jesus' humanity, then Calvinism falls....

but the scripture is clear, those who encountered Jesus encountered the Father. You are not about to accept this, but hopefully others investigating Calvinism will see and avoid the errors found in Calvinism theology.

 

[Yeshua1]

Please clarify yourself. If man has a will, then by definition it must be free enough to choose between good and evil or it is no will at all. What kind of will does man have if it cannot make a choice?

Since the Fall of adam, all of us save for jesus Himself lost having libertine free will as adam once had before he sinned, so we can still freely decide to do what we all want to, its just there are things that we will not choose to do on own violation, such as comimng to jesus to get saved!