The hidden dangers of Calvinism

[Pastor Larry]

If they both teach exactly the same things then one of the two is not necessary.

Sure. Calvinism is only a nickname for the gospel. We don't need "Calvinism" as a name.

 

[Salamander]

Really? Man's testimony is the most powerful tool? Too bad Paul didn't know that. He said the gospel was the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes. He said nothing about your testimony (or mine) being the most powerful.

It is stated in combionation with the Blood of Christ in overcoming the power of satan.

Do you really care to explain salvation, the Christian walk, and our defense against the powers of darkness apart from the Blood?

Do you really care to explain how anyone has a testimony apart from the Gospel and that Gospel devoid of the Blood of Christ?

Do you really care to explain how Paul gave his testimony in nearly every Epistle and claim he didn't think it was part of the Gospel and inherently a major component in his preaching the Gospel?

You seem not to read very well. I have implied nothing of the sort. The Bible teaches that all men are sinners deserving of hell, and willfully going there. The Bible teaches that God chooses some to save them. The Bible (not me) calls them the elect.

Yes, God calls all those who are saved the elect. All men are sinners, yet the elect are those saved by grace through faith/ saved sinners.

"Elect" carries the conotation of a past action, not a previous condition.

Calvinism teaches a previous condition that the Bible never teaches.

Can you show any non-elect person getting saved?

Sure, "All who will come unto me I will in no wise cast out". All those who were not saved were never elect until after they got saved. That is the primary essence of election.

Election is the condition of the saved, not the process of getting saved prior to repentence and devoid of grace through faith.

Really? Can you show me a passage of Scripture that Calvinism is out of harmony with? (I hope so, because I have asked before and no one ever seems to be able to give one).[/quote] II Peter 3:9 w/o any of your convolutions.:laugh:

I simply read what you said.

I believe you do not understand either the Scriptures or Calvinism.

No, you read into anything I say attempting to hold onto something you should have turned loose of many years ago.

 

[Salamander]

double post

 

[Salamander]

Sure. Calvinism is only a nickname for the gospel. We don't need "Calvinism" as a name.

Um, where did the Lord ever give nicknames for the Gospel?

Thank you for admitting man's attempt to intervene and add something to Scripture that doesn't exist!:tonofbricks:

 

[Salamander]

hmmmm ... you got verses for this? Because it sounds to me like God admitted he didn't do everything he could have to secure their repentance.

You got a verse for this to? Can you show us one place in Scripture where election is predicated on repentance

When you start making accusations against God count me out.

 

[Pastor Larry]

It is stated in combionation with the Blood of Christ in overcoming the power of satan.

We are not talking about the blood here.

"Elect" carries the conotation of a past action, not a previous condition.

HMMM … And what is this difference? The Bible says that God chose us to salvation. That sounds like a past act to me.

Calvinism teaches a previous condition that the Bible never teaches.

So being “chosen to salvation from the beginning” is not a previous condition? What is it?

Sure, "All who will come unto me I will in no wise cast out".

Perhaps you missed the question. I asked for evidence of a non-elect person getting saved. This verse has nothing about that, so far as I can tell.

All those who were not saved were never elect until after they got saved. That is the primary essence of election.

So when the Bible says that God chose us to salvation from the beginning, does that mean that we were saved from the beginning? You are starting to sound like a hyperCalvinist.

Election is the condition of the saved, not the process of getting saved prior to repentence and devoid of grace through faith.

You are right that election isn’t a process of getting saved.

II Peter 3:9 w/o any of your convolutions.

2 Peter 3:9 is not out of harmony with Calvinism. It is the same thing that Ezekiel says, that God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked. (If you actually harmonize the Scriptures, you will see these things).

No, you read into anything I say attempting to hold onto something you should have turned loose of many years ago.

So you are saying I should turn loose of the Bible and follow you? That’s an easy choice for me.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Um, where did the Lord ever give nicknames for the Gospel?

He didn't.

Thank you for admitting man's attempt to intervene and add something to Scripture that doesn't exist!

What? The nickname is a name for a set of beliefs about the Bible. It is not adding anything but a name, same as with Trinity or Rapture or many other examples. It is just a name given to biblical teachings.

When you start making accusations against God count me out.

I haven't made any.

 

[Jarthur001]

[/B]

It was God's but Jonah resisted when according to Calvinism he wasn't able to resist God.

I'm sorry but you are wrong. Calvinism does teach man can and does resist. In face we teach that man will always resist unless God elects. But this has nothing to do with Jonah story so why bring it up? Jonah was a believer already, and therefore his resisting had noting to do with Salvation. However, if it was, did God just let him go? No...i think in the end Jonah really could resist. Now please don't say it was me that abused the passage and use in out of context. You was the one that brought this up trying to prove me can resist salvation. It was out of context, but it was in context, you still made no point.

take a deep breath Jauthur you'll be alright.

Thanks. But that is Jarthur and 001 at that.

Really what passage would that be? Rom 3:10-18 is always shown to support for the disability of man.

I'm glad you asked..

I Cor...

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

John 8..

42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it

.

John 8 again..

47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Are non-believers of God?

There is more. Would you like to see them?

I do not disagree with the Bible nor do I try to make it seem to say something it doesn't.
That whole passage is about the choosing for a nation not election to Salvation.

Its about the subject of election. It is beyond a nation. This is why they talk about PEOPLE. One child over the other child. A child is a person. Yes that child became a nation, but the choice was made of the child before it was a nation. If you add nation you add to the text that is not there. Please do not do this.

Also please note that Pharoh was a person.

Also please note that the Clay is a person, not a nation.

Also please not that VESSEL is PEOPLE not a nation.

And also.....please understand this if you will. A nation is PEOPLE not land.

Now who is reading into the text?? The calvinist or the free-willer? :smilewinkgrin:

Christ chose to die for the whole world and Calvinist on this board want to change the meaning of the word "world", "All", and "WHOSOEVER"

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The word takes on the meaning found in the text. The word "all" is not talked of in Romans 9...so I'm not sure why you bring this blanket statement up. If you wish to address a passage post it.

Truthfully it blows your position away.

It does no such thing. I showed you the meaning.

Here let me post a verse that will help you understand..

1 Corinthians 15:22
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Who placed you in Adam?

Yes but we aren't in Christ as long as we do not believe and Calvinism places regeneration before faith, instead of through it. as in Eph 2:8 a complete denial of scripture.

Yes life comes before understanding. This is what scripture says..

John 1..

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men

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It's pretty clear.

No. However in Adam we did make the choice to sin because, we were all in Adam. He was the creation we are the procreation. All including Adam was created with a propensity for sin other wise Adam would not have sinned.
It is my choice to sin and it is my choice to rebel in any way I choose. God has allowed man this boundry. It's called freewill..
It's true man doesn't choose God but man can always choose to rebel.

Notice that you take your own logic over the Bible. I'll stick with the Bible.

 

[blackbird]

This thread has reached its 30 page limit for thread space and will be closed

Blackbird

 

[Jarthur001]

page 31 and we have yet to see a danger.

Must be at least one real danger. Come on guys....just one.