The high cost of a believer rejecting Jesus Christ

Because I didn't foam at the mouth over the twisting of Hebrews 10:28-31? I am used to the Calvinist naysayer twisting scriptures to give the impression that God does not save, only man can save himself, and Jesus was not needed, cause man is able to be holy without God's intervention.

Ok, so lets play the Hebrews game.

The writer is obviously talking about the sin of apostasy. But there are facts disallowing the supposition of these being "born-again believers".

The grammatical form of v.29 lets us know that the participle is being used adjectively expressing antecedent, even simultaneous time. Since the main verb is in the future tense, you can use the word "would" to translate these participles... "would tread under foot"... "would reckon the blood"... "would insult the spirit"...

The one who would commit such a sin would be guilty of apostasy. Yes.

Where in verse 29 does the author say that believers have indeed been trampled under the foot of the Son of God????

If you go back to verse 26 that was soooo conviently skipped (typical arminian scam) you will see that the author throws himself into this whole scenerio!

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Are you folks now saying that the very author himself was on the road to apostasy when he wrote this epistle???????????????????????????

Ergo in 2 Timothy 3:16 The "God Breathed" text in Hebrews 10:26-39 was inspiried from an apostate God?????????????????????

Look at verse 39 (which again was skipped as expected.)

Hebrews 10:39 "But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."

OOOooopppsss!!!

That scripture reads awfully different when you take it from 26-39, instead of the Calvin naysayer "scrip-rip" method of twisting tattered pieces of incomplete sentences.

The author is not saying that anyone has committed the sin, just what would happened if it had been committed. Here is the hypothetical situation, God is passing on a warning as a means to ensure our perserverence.

30 & 31 Tell us that knowledge of God strengthens, not weakens.

For believers, God is a God of love and mercy, for the defiant, He is a God to be dreaded and feared.

 

<x)))>< dang...mine died.

 

I don't think this is an idle threat to believers as you seem to imply. It is most likely speaking of false professors in the fold of the church- like the wheat and tares parable.

 

GOD IS! MAN IS NOT!

 

I have a French keyboard, what you need is the degree character I think

David
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GOD IS! MAN IS NOT! </font>[/QUOTE]Wes....

When have I ever said that man was even worthy to be anything more than nothing?

If we all got what we had coming, we would all be in hell! How many times do I have to say that?

Does God "HAVE" to save us?
Is God "COMPELLED" to save us?
Is God "FORCED" to save us?

Maybe it is God's "infininte grace" that saves us? He doesn't "HAVE" to reconcile himself to us! We "CANNOT" reconcile ourselves to Him, we are stuck HOPING that He will make the first move to extend a helping hand home.

He Did! I am saved! Thank God! He chose me! I sure am indebted to Him for saving me after Adam had turned his back on Him!

 

Bwahahaha! It is by no means an idle threat! God says what He means, and means what He says! I thought it was actually nice of Him to toss out a little reminder of what could have happened to me if He had decided not to choose me!

These promises need to be relayed to the unbelievers that we witness to, so that they will know what is in store for them if they continue to defy God...

 

OSAS;

This is a figment of your imagination. Not to mention a false accusation. I certainly don't believe man can save anything let alone himself.
Icthus didn't twist scripture and neither did I i just presented the scripture if it was twisted is was your own mind that did it.
This is the scripture that says man can fall;
Hebrews 6:4-6, 10:26-29, 12:15-17, Mat 5:13, 2:31-32, 2nd, Peter 2:20-22, 21:24, Luke8:13, 20:18 Romans 11:11 2Peter2:10, 3:17, 1st Jn5:16 Mk 11:26, Rev 22:18-19, 3:16, Jn 15:6.
Well you loose because the one with the most witnesses plus Christ In Mat 18:35 prove you doctrine to be wrong.
May Christ Shine His Light On us all;
Mike

 

The grace of God is no idle gift. The very wonder of God's provision for man's redemption, the completeness of Christ's sacrifice, the gentle persistence of the spirit of grace, carry with them clear implications which our author now makes terribly explicit.

The sin here is clearly apostasy. The reference in Deut. 17:2-7 is to turning away from the Lord to the worship of other gods, such as the sun or moon. The tense of the word "sin" means "if we keep sinning wilfully." The knowledge is complete knowledge. The meaning of this sin is traced out in vs. 29.

There is a stern and inevitable logic in this passage. If we despise the sacrifice of Christ, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. God has spoken his final word in Jesus. He can say no more. He has revealed the way of salvation. There is no other way. Nor can the revelation be made any clearer.

If men turn away from the Christ, what can they expect? If they will not meet the God of mercy, they will encounter the God of wrath. They are left in their tragic fears, a certain fearful looking for of judgment. No man can escape the condemnation of conscience. To be separated from God is itself the fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. The fury of this fire men have known in bitter experience in our lifetime.

It is the obverse side of the gospel of grace. Without this fury of fire, the gospel of grace can have no meaning, make no appeal. The first work of the interpreter is to show men the fury of fire which even now consumes them. It should be so announced that men will recognize it out of their own experience. The fearful prospect of judgment is deeply suppressed these days and the very suppression is made clear by dread symptoms. The symptoms of fear and hate and bitterness at least can be recognized.

If an apostate under the law of Moses died without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses, how much more punishment ... will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, even as the covenant of Christ is much better than the old ceremonial law of Moses? The higher the privilege, the more severe the penalty: it is the law of scripture and of life.
The reader should ponder the three qualifications of apostasy in vs. 29.

The word translated spurned means literally to "trample underfoot," and more generally, to "treat with rudeness and insult." The word profaned means to "consider common." At whatever cost, evil must disparage Jesus Christ, reduce him, explain him, get him out of the way. When a man has received full knowledge of the truth, he can escape that truth only by belittling the Savior. It ought to be obvious to any man that this is the one unforgivable sin. In Mark's account (3:92-30) the scribes came down from Jerusalem to Galilee. They were prejudiced against Jesus. He was popular with the crowd; they were not. He taught with freshness and power; their teaching was dry and sterile. He kept dwelling upon all the grand simplicities of religion; their teaching was all tangled up with trivialities. So they whispered among the people, "He is possessed by Beelzebul, and by the prince of demons he casts out the demons" (Mark 3:22). Their sin was this: they looked on the best the earth has ever known and they said, "He hath a devil," and they said it to preserve their own position and power. It was then that Jesus gave his teaching about the unforgivable sin; and Mark adds, "For they had said, 'He has an unclean spirit'" (3:30). This is the ultimate moral confusion. When a man has looked on the best and pronounced it the worst, he has outraged the Spirit of grace.

Vengeance is mine, I will repay. This should be our comfort. It bids us not be cast down when we are the victims of unfair human judgment. There is a fair judgment where even now we are justly appraised. It bids us give over our fretful impulse to pass quick judgments on our fellows. One there is who looks upon the heart and judges righteously. Yet the judgment of God is also a dreadful thing. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Before him all our flimsy pretenses drop away. All hidden things are brought to light. We are seen through and through. Small wonder that, facing that prospect, those who have never been reconciled to God, and so to themselves, "will begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us'" (Luke 23:30). Beyond God there is no appeal. From him there is no escape. If he is the sovereign God, and therein is all our hope, it follows that he is also sovereign Right, and therein is all our dread.

Copied this from one of my commentaries. Interpreters Bible.
Hope it helps.

David
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that's fine David, but that section you pasted in didn't really address whether this passage is speaking of believers or unbelievers.

Must...get...French...keyboard.

&lt;@)))&gt;&lt;

 

I think it does, they are people who want nothing to do with Gods plan, ie, Christ. Unbelieving Jews. The message was first preached to the Jews, they said, although not all, its nonsense. Hebrews deals a lot with non-Christians in these passages, the only tricky bit are the ones who tasted the Heaveny gift etc, but I dont think they were born anew.

David
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I don't understand what I am to do with those scripture references? They all support Calvin's position! You want me to argue with myself? Have you had the chance to read those references of yours yet? Do you need a bible? I can mail one to you, or ask a local Southern Baptist church in your area to drop by your house and leave a copy with you to read. Lemme know Brother ILL, I can get a bible out to you asap if need be.

 

OSAS;

Well goodness gracious you didn't tell you don't understand the Bible. Oh well I can't help you from here I suppose you'll just have to deal with it.
May Christ Shine His Light On us all;
Mike

 

Hi David;

I wonder could you tell me how one can taste of the heavenly gift and not be saved?.
May Christ Shine His Light On us all;
Mike

 

He will give you a good explanation of the text.

On this, you are correct.

Actually, my defense is mine, and it does stand. You haven't even addressed it.

Two errors. My sermons are all mine, no one else's. I can't preach anyone else's sermons. Howevewr, I do read others and study what they say. Second, that was not what Paul meant by building on another's foundation. Paul was speaking of planting churches in areas that had never heard the gospel, rather than working in areas where other men had already started the gospel.

I have never done that, and never will. I spend anywhere from 10-20 hours on my Sunday morning messages. The one I linked to just happened to be a good one that someone else preached. You should actually listen to it.

 

Takes great skill to bring people together

How can anyone deny being born again. I think its impossible to deny, Christians backslide yes, and the words of Christ are there as a warning in that parable I mentioned earlier.

I believe in the irrisistable Grace part of Calvinism for Christians.

I think that some people are approached in some way by God and yet fail to respond fully. People have contact with the truth and yet put it off or dismiss it.

And yes I still think Hebrews is talking about non-Christians in its negative passages. Obviously it was written to Christians, give me some credit.

Its a difficult book. The question that should be asked is, is a mans folly and stupidity stronger than a Soveriegn God who is before all things, and who ordained Christ before the foundation of the world for the elect? I think the answer is no.

I dont believe man has the right to say 'once saved always saved' and yet Jesus said only one would be lost, that I should lose nothing of what the Father has given me ( THATS THE SON OF GOD TALKING THERE )

I do not know the answer, it all seems quite a paradox. And what about the verse in Revelation...'I will not blot his name out of the book of Life' is it possible to have your name blotted out because you do something wrong?

David
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There is strain with this verse as well, but it is the book of life (the living) not the lambs book of life. surely God can blot out the lives of the living...right?

 

Phillipians 4:3 uses book of life with the eternal life meaning.

David
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