The Holy Father visits Spain

What do you guys think "saint" means?

And I thought Catholics were the ones taking heat for supposed legalism!

 

Pope Asks For Prayers To Continue To Fulfill His Mission

Celebrates 83rd Birthday by Proclaiming Four New Saints

VATICAN CITY, MAY 18, 2003 (Zenit.org) - On the occasion of his 83rd birthday, John Paul II asked for prayers to continue to fulfill his mission, thanking in turn the numerous faithful who had sent congratulatory messages.

The Holy Father's birthday coincided with the canonization of Polish Bishop Sebastian Pleczar (1842-1924); Austrian nun Ursula Ledochowska (1865-1939), who died in Poland; and Italians Maria De Mattias (1805-1866), and Virginia Centurione Bracelli (1587-1651), all of whom founded religious congregations.

Addressing the 50,000 pilgrims gathered in St. Peter's Square in the Vatican, John Paul II asked "each and every one to continue to pray so that God will help me to fulfill faithfully the mission he has entrusted to me."

"There is no age that is an obstacle for a perfect life," the Holy Father said during the homily of the Mass, attended by some 20,000 Poles, including Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski.

"Grateful for the gift of life, today I again entrust to the Virgin my life and the ministry that Providence has called me to fulfill," the Pope concluded.

At the beginning of the Eucharistic celebration, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, in his capacity as dean of the College of Cardinals, congratulated the Pope on his birthday, not only on behalf of those present in Rome, but also on behalf of the "innumerable people spread throughout the world, well beyond the confines of the Catholic Church, including beyond the confines of the Christian world."

"To believe and to love: this is the program of his pontificate. You show us, tirelessly, the face of Christ, the face of the merciful God," Cardinal Ratzinger said.

"Tirelessly you lead us, grounding us in Christ, to overcome the forces of hatred, the prejudices that separate, to pull down the walls that attempt to separate us," he added.

"By beginning afresh from Christ, you help us to find the way that leads to salvation. For this, we wish to give you our heartfelt thanks. May the Lord reward you as he rewards his faithful servants," he said.

For the first time, the Holy See, which has received a multitude of congratulatory telegrams for the Holy Father, has given an e-mail address John_Paul_II@vatican.va on its web page (http://www.vatican.va), so that any one who wishes to send congratulations may do so.

The Pope's birthday is not celebrated in the Vatican. The Holy Father prefers to celebrate the feast of his patron saint, St. Charles Borromeo, November 4, and the anniversary of his election as Bishop of Rome on October 16. This year he will celebrate 25 years as Pope.

Nevertheless, the Polish nuns who look after the Pope prepared a special dinner for him today, as the new canonized Polish Bishop, Monsignor Sebastian Pleczar, founded the Handmaids of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, the congregation to which they belong, in Krakow in 1894.

 

The pope is proclaiming that these 4 people have just been born again?

Hi Mike. The successor of St. Peter, John Paul II (Karol Wojtyla), is proclaiming that these four souls are currently enjoying the Beatific Vision in heaven among the Church Triumphant. This necessarily entails that these four individuals were reborn by water and spirit (Cf. John 3). As Catholics, we believe that we are reborn in baptism according to how the Scriptures have been interpreted in Apostolic Tradition for 2,000 years.

St. Justin, who was martyred in the Roman Colisseum for his Christian faith around 160 A.D., wrote:

"Then they [catechumens] are brought by us to where there is water, and they are reborn in the same manner in which we were ourselves reborn. For in the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, 'Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.'. . . That they may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again and has repented of his sins, the Name of God the Father and Lord of the universe . . . But also in the Name of Jesus Christ Who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the Name of the Holy Spirit, Who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed" (First Apology 61).

For more information on this topic, I suggest reading:
http://www.catholicoutlook.com/glenn1.html

 

Mike, I noticed that you're a charismatic/pentecostal in your profile. That's great! I, too, am a charismatic/pentecostal and attend a university open to the gifts of the Spirit: http://www.franciscan.edu

Other then that, there is no other biblically identified "succesorship", other then each born again person being born again one after the other.

Actually, Mike, Matthias replaced Judas Iscariot at the end of Acts 1. When Luke quotes the Old Testament in v. 20, he writes: "His office let another take". Office in this passage is episkope, which is the Greek word for the English bishopric, from which we derive "bishop".

Irenaeus, the great defender of Orthodoxy against the Gnostics in Gaul circa 180 A.D., attests to the fact that in his day, the succession of bishops throughout the whole world from the original twelve apostles is well-known:

"The true knowledge is the doctrine of the apostles, and the ancient organization of the Church throughout the whole world, and the manifestation of the body of Christ according to the succession of bishops, by which succession the bishops have handed down the Church which is found everywhere" (Against Heresies, 4:33:8).

In his great work against the Gnostics, Irenaeus also writes of the bishopric in Rome:

"The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome despatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spake with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels. From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the apostolical tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood, and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things. To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Sorer having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth." (Book 3, Chapter 3, Article 3)

You can read the work for yourself here:

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103.htm

If, and only if, those people were born again people...actually christians...then they are enjoying heaven because they were christians.

I disagree. I disagree because I believe that there is such thing as mortal sin (1 John 5:16), which is deadly (i.e., mortal), and that when a Christian commits this sort of sin, he/she loses his/her divine sonship in Jesus Christ, thus disinheriting heaven.

"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that." (1 John 5:16).

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts.." (1 Cor 6:9).

For, "by rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith" (1 Tim 1:19).

Much of the Epistle to the Hebrews was written to encourage Christians not to forsake their faith and go back once again to their former state of life through apostasy:

"For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt." (Heb 6:4-6)

In Galatians, Ch. 5, Verses 1 through 5, God's Word reads:

(A) For freedom Christ set us free; so stand firm and do not submit again to the yoke of slavery. It is I, Paul, who am telling you that (B) if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you. Once again I declare to every man who has himself circumcised that he is bound to observe the entire law. (C) You are separated from Christ, you who are trying to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we await the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only (D) faith working through love.

A. St. Paul is writing his converts at the church of the Galations. He addresses them by saying, "Christ set us free", "stand firm", "do not submit again to the yoke of slavery". These Christians addressed have been released from the slavery of Mosaic Law - they have converted & found faith in Jesus Christ.

B. The converts are commanded by St. Paul not to return to the former Mosaic Law they were held bound to; for if they do, Christ will no longer be a benefit to them, after he was of benefit to them in (A).

C. To have fallen from grace, the converts must have been in grace beforehand. When Christians, saved Christians, return to the justification of Mosaic Law, they become separated from Christ.

D. In further clarification, St. Paul clarifies that this Christian faith is a faith working through love, awaiting the hope of righteousness.

one is born again by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

I agree with your above statement except for "faith alone" if you mean to say "faith" in the sense of faith separated from hope and love. If you mean "faith" as in faith, hope, and love, then I agree completely with you.

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love" (Gal 5:6).

You dont actually believe that, do you?

Of course I do. Not a single Christian Mike, I repeat, not a single Christian.. interpreted John 3:5 to be speaking of anything other than baptism for the first 16 centuries of Christianity.

That's every Christian in every place at every time.

The catholic church has been adding, and adding, and adding, and adding, and adding, and adding, and adding un-biblical traditions to the truth of the word of God for 2000 years now.

As an MA student studying theology, I can say, "No, Mike, I honestly disagree with you."

"For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men...All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you many keep your tradition."

You also forgot 2 Thess 2:15, 2 Thess 3:6, and 1 Cor 11:2:

"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter."

"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us."

"I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you."

I also point you to 2 Tim 3:14 where Paul instructs Timothy: "But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it," which is that Tradition that Timothy learned from Paul apart from the Scriptures mentioned in the next two verses:

"and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness".

Paul instructed Timothy as a bishop and instructed him to appoint other bishops who would be entrusted with what was heard from Paul, who would then be able to teach others in turn:

"and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim 2:2).

Timothy, a bishop ordained by Paul, is commanded by Paul: "O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you."

This is the job of the teaching office of the Church (all of the bishops teaching in union with the successor of St. Peter). They are to guard the faith once and for all handed to the saints (Jude 3).

They stand not above or equal to the Word of God. They stand under the Word of God as the Church teaches in Dei Verbum of Vatican II:

"This teaching office is not above the word of God, but serves it, teaching only what has been handed on, listening to it devoutly, guarding it scrupulously and explaining it faithfully in accord with a divine commission and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it draws from this one deposit of faith everything which it presents for belief as divinely revealed" (Dei Verbum 9).

I know that you have been told, by the Catholic church, to believe these things, and you have no choice but to bow

No, actually Mike, I have the choice to leave the Catholic Church at any time. I'm free to do so, and I choose not to freely out of my own free will.

but if the catholic church were being led of the Spirit regarding these things, they would encourage all of their people to be like the Bereans...

You might be interested in this article, written by a former anti-Catholic Baptist who eventually converted to Catholicism without ever having attended a Catholic Church or having met a Catholic presbyter:

http://www.catholic-convert.com/Page_Viewer.asp?inc=writings/sola.html

"However, when He, the Spirit of Truth has come, He will guide you...(all christians, of course)...into all truth"

No, actually, "all christians, of course" is not in this passage that John records of Jesus at the Last Supper. Jesus is addressing, in specific, his apostles to whom "it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven" (Mt 13:11).