The Holy Spirit and Salvation !

[Alan Dale Gross]

So your salvation involves the Lord using as the very basis to be able to save lost sinners what they choose to do, and not at all what He needs to do for us?

As you probably know, JesusFan;

TOTAL DEPRAVITY CONSIDERED POSITIVELY.

Total Depravity means that sin has permeated every faculty of man's being
just as a drop of poison would permeate every molecule of a glass of water.

Sin has warped every Faculty in man, and thus it Taints his every Act.

(1) Proof of Total Depravity.
A. Man is Depraved in Mind. Gen. 6:5.
B. In Heart. Jer. 17:9.
C. In Affections so that He is Averse to God. John 3: 19; Rom. 8:7.
D. In Conscience. Titus 1:15; Heb. 10:22.
E. In Speech. Psa. 58:3; Jer. 8:6; Rom. 3:13.
F. Depraved from Head to Foot. Isa. 1:5,6.
G. Depraved when Born. Psa. 51:5; Psa. 58:3.

(2) The Effect of Total Depravity.
A. No Remnant of Good Remains in Man by Nature. Rom. 7: I&
B. Therefore Man by Nature Cannot Subject Himself to the Law of God or Please God. Rom. 8:7,8.
C. Man is by Nature Spiritually Dead. Rom. 5:12; Col. 2:16; 1 John 3:14.
D. Therefore He Cannot Comprehend Spiritual Things. 1 Cor. 2:14.
E. Hence He Cannot Until Quickened by the Spirit of God, Turn From Sin to God in Godly Penitence and Faith. Jer. 13:23; John 6:44,65; 12:39,40.

The Basis of Depravity and Spiritual Inability lies in the heart. It is deceitful and incurably wicked (Jer. 17:9).
Out of the heart are the issues of life (Prov. 4:23). No one can bring a clean thing out of an unclean one (Job 14:4).

Hence neither holiness nor faith can proceed from the natural heart.
Good things proceed from a good heart and evil things proceed from an evil heart (Matt. 7:17,18; Luke 6:45).

THE DOCTRINE OF SIN by T.P. Simmons.

 

[Van]

Only the unstudied believe being made sinners as a consequence of Adam's sin results in total spiritual inability.

1) People are depraved in mind. Does that mean people never seek God? Nope

2) Romans 7:18 says we cannot do good, as all our works of righteousness as as filthy rags to God. But we can will to be godly. Thus we can put our faith in Christ, because faith is according to grace.

3) Romans 8:7 says a mind set on the flesh is hostile to God, but it does not say our minds are always set on the flesh, such as when we will to be godly.

4) From conception, we were born spiritually dead, a made sinner, separated from out holy God as a consequence of Adam's sin. But this does not mean we cannot will to be godly or will to be saved (Romans 9:16).

5) 1 Corinthians 2:14 says natural people cannot understand the things of the Spirit. It does not say all the things because contextually only the solid food (meat) things (1 Corinthians 3:1) are in view, since Paul speaks to natural people using spiritual milk.

6) John 6:44 tells us we, when lost, must be "drawn" by the Father to be saved. Here the idea is we must be attracted by the lovingkindness of Christ's gospel in order to be saved. And John 6:65 tells us God must allow us to believe because if He chooses to harden our heart, we cannot believe. Neither verse provides any support whatsoever for the bogus idea the lost cannot seek God and place their trust in Christ.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Van

1) People are depraved in mind. Does that mean people never seek God? Nope

Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

More corruption of truth

 

[Van]

@Van



Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

More corruption of truth

There is none that understrandeth, there is none that seeketh after God [all the time, such as when sinning].
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God [at any time, although verse after verse says they do, such as the rich young ruler.]

Calvinist corruptly add to scripture what is obviously false because it conflicts with the context.

 

[Van]

Only the unstudied believe being made sinners as a consequence of Adam's sin results in total spiritual inability.
1) People are depraved in mind. Does that mean people never seek God? Nope
2) Romans 7:18 says we cannot do good, as all our works of righteousness as as filthy rags to God. But we can will to be godly. Thus we can put our faith in Christ, because faith is according to grace.
3) Romans 8:7 says a mind set on the flesh is hostile to God, but it does not say our minds are always set on the flesh, such as when we will to be godly.
4) From conception, we were born spiritually dead, a made sinner, separated from out holy God as a consequence of Adam's sin. But this does not mean we cannot will to be godly or will to be saved (Romans 9:16).
5) 1 Corinthians 2:14 says natural people cannot understand the things of the Spirit. It does not say all the things because contextually only the solid food (meat) things (1 Corinthians 3:1) are in view, since Paul speaks to natural people using spiritual milk.
6) John 6:44 tells us we, when lost, must be "drawn" by the Father to be saved. Here the idea is we must be attracted by the lovingkindness of Christ's gospel in order to be saved. And John 6:65 tells us God must allow us to believe because if He chooses to harden our heart, we cannot believe. Neither verse provides any support whatsoever for the bogus idea the lost cannot seek God and place their trust in Christ.

 

[Brightfame52]

There is none that understrandeth, there is none that seeketh after God [all the time, such as when sinning].
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God [at any time, although verse after verse says they do, such as the rich young ruler.]

Calvinist corruptly add to scripture what is obviously false because it conflicts with the context.

Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

More corruption of truth

 

[Van]

Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

More corruption of truth

There is none that understrandeth, there is none that seeketh after God [all the time, such as when sinning].
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God [at any time, although verse after verse says they do, such as the rich young ruler.]

Context is king. Out of context extrapolation results in false doctrine.

 

[Brightfame52]

There is none that understrandeth, there is none that seeketh after God [all the time, such as when sinning].
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God [at any time, although verse after verse says they do, such as the rich young ruler.]

Context is king. Out of context extrapolation results in false doctrine.

Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

More corruption of truth

 

[Van]

There is none that understrandeth, there is none that seeketh after God [all the time, such as when sinning].
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God [at any time, although verse after verse says they do, such as the rich young ruler.]

Context is king. Out of context extrapolation results in false doctrine.

Some folks think ignoring truth results in edification. Wiser minds disagree.

 

[Brightfame52]

Some folks think ignoring truth results in edification. Wiser minds disagree.

Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Ps 14:2

The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

The Holy Spirit gives witness in the OT and NT human nature is the same

 

[Brightfame52]

Unto Obedience !


1 Pet 1:1-2

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

All for whom Christ died shall be made obedient which is an effect and fruit of the success of His Death. The Holy Spirit is responsible in the Covenant engagement to bring all for whom Christ died to obedience to the Faith Rom 16:26

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

These here are the Elect of God, Elect according to the Foreknowledge of God the Father, because He chose them in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Thats why they are the foreknown, and they were Chosen to Obedience or to Faith and the Holy Spirit brings that about, this comes through the New Birth for they are begotten again by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This is how the Elect begin their New Life of Obedience, for the word begotten us again in the greek is the word anagennaō and means:


to produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

We have our minds changed [repentance] so that we do live a new life, one conformed to the will of God, that's the beginning of Obedience !

This is but the fulfillment of the Covenant Promise that promised obedience Ezk 36:26-27


26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

You see that ? Thats promised obedience ! This is the Ministry of the New Covenant, the administration of the Spirit 2 Cor 3:5-8, So the Apostles knew as they were directed to Preach the Gospel , they knew that those who obeyed, that God had given them the Spirit Ezk 36:27

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

And so Peter declared that God had given the Spirit of promise to those obeying Him Acts 5:32

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Which are these 1 Pet 1:1-2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

If they were obeying, it was because they had partaken of the Holy Spirit's Sanctification ! 3

 

[Van]

The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt,

Who are the "they?" Those that say "there is no God!"

The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.

The children of men includes the "they" the fools, but also includes others.

They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.

God sees that all the "fools" have all turned aside.

Then God asks the Question, have all the children of men, the workers of iniquity no knowledge?

Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge,
Who eat up my people as they eat bread,
And do not call on the LORD?

And then God gives His answer, right there in Psalm 14!!

There they are in great fear,
For God is with the generation of the righteous.

Thus we have two lessons from God's word, we are all "workers of iniquity" we have all turned aside
but some of us "call on the LORD" Yahweh as a refuge from the consequences of our sin. Paul used the first lesson to make his point that we are all "under sin!" He did not nullify God's second point, only Calvinists pushing their man-made "T" try to do that!

 

[JesusFan]

Only the unstudied believe being made sinners as a consequence of Adam's sin results in total spiritual inability.

1) People are depraved in mind. Does that mean people never seek God? Nope

2) Romans 7:18 says we cannot do good, as all our works of righteousness as as filthy rags to God. But we can will to be godly. Thus we can put our faith in Christ, because faith is according to grace.

3) Romans 8:7 says a mind set on the flesh is hostile to God, but it does not say our minds are always set on the flesh, such as when we will to be godly.

4) From conception, we were born spiritually dead, a made sinner, separated from out holy God as a consequence of Adam's sin. But this does not mean we cannot will to be godly or will to be saved (Romans 9:16).

5) 1 Corinthians 2:14 says natural people cannot understand the things of the Spirit. It does not say all the things because contextually only the solid food (meat) things (1 Corinthians 3:1) are in view, since Paul speaks to natural people using spiritual milk.

6) John 6:44 tells us we, when lost, must be "drawn" by the Father to be saved. Here the idea is we must be attracted by the lovingkindness of Christ's gospel in order to be saved. And John 6:65 tells us God must allow us to believe because if He chooses to harden our heart, we cannot believe. Neither verse provides any support whatsoever for the bogus idea the lost cannot seek God and place their trust in Christ.

1/ Isaiah, Peter and the Holy Spirit disagree with you on that

2/How can spiritually dead sinners suddenly will themselves to believe, are you teaching Finnism here then?

3/ natural people, lost sinners, have their minds and desires bent away from God
4/More according to Charles Finney, not the Bible
5/natural persons are unsaved and lost, no way to understand spiritual things of God apart from the Holy Spirit chosing to reveal that to them
6/it refers to God the father elected us to be found in Christ form foundation of the dearth, from Eternity past

 

[Brightfame52]

The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt,

Who are the "they?" Those that say "there is no God!"

The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.

The children of men includes the "they" the fools, but also includes others.

They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.

God sees that all the "fools" have all turned aside.

Then God asks the Question, have all the children of men, the workers of iniquity no knowledge?

Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge,
Who eat up my people as they eat bread,
And do not call on the LORD?

And then God gives His answer, right there in Psalm 14!!

There they are in great fear,
For God is with the generation of the righteous.

Thus we have two lessons from God's word, we are all "workers of iniquity" we have all turned aside
but some of us "call on the LORD" Yahweh as a refuge from the consequences of our sin. Paul used the first lesson to make his point that we are all "under sin!" He did not nullify God's second point, only Calvinists pushing their man-made "T" try to do that!

None seek God or understands the True God

 

[Brightfame52]

The Spirit Reveals Christ as our Saviour if He died for us!


One of the things the Spirit of God is bound to do within the Covenant Engagements of the Triune God, is to reveal Christ to the Church which He died Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it or died for it;

Jn 16:13-15

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

He shall show the Church His Covenant Ps 25:14

The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

Now this is exemplified here by these words " Lord remember me" Lk 23:38-42

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

The words of the Thief that hung next to Jesus ! What made him now say Lord remember me ? 1 Cor 12:3

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Yes, in the Twilight of his sinful life, the Holy Spirit shewed him his Salvation in Christ, and so repentance was granted him ! Earlier he mocked Christ along with the other malefactor Matt 27:38-44

38 Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.

39 And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads,

40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,

42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.

The thieves plural cast the same in his teeth. After this, one of those thieves had it revealed to him, who Jesus was , notice his words at conversion Lk 23:40-41

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

Thats an incredible statement to make, that a man has done nothing amiss !

This was none other than the Holy Spirit revealing to this thief his interest in God's Covenant, which God does to them that fear Him as obviously this dying their was made to do here Lk 23:40

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

God will give the Covenant Heart to fear God sooner or later Jer 32:40

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

This comes at New Birth. See how quick God can make a New Convert out of His Grace ? This is the Spirit's Work in the Salvation of everyone Christ died for ! 3

 

[Brightfame52]

He gives the Life to the Sheep Jesus Promised !

Jn 10:10

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Christ always spoke in light of what His Death would accomplish for His People, His Sheep, His Church !

His giving up of His Life was automatically the giving of them Life, He would give not offer but give Life to the world of His Elect Jn 6:33

For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

This is the same abundant Life He purposed in Jn 10:10 !

This is Life Eternal as a result of Him fulfilling the Covenant obligations given to Him of the Father for the Sheep ! Heb 13:20-21

Because of this, a inner spiritual work must begin for each Sheep as indicated in vs 21 of Heb 13:21

That is the Holy Spirit works the Covenant benefits of Christ's death of redemption into all for whom He died, no exceptions, this Life given produces both faith and repentance that they may be evidences of the Life given them by Christ ! Jn 17:2,4

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Again this would be the end result of His Finished Work Vs 4 and the Holy Spirit works His New Birth Ministry according to Christ's Finish Work and gives it [New Birth] to as many as the Father gave Him in the Covenant !

 

[Brightfame52]

The Work of God !

Jn 6:29

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Faith to believe on Christ as He is set forth in the Gospel of God's Grace, it is worked in us by God Himself as a Covenant Blessing Heb 13:20-21

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Its the operation of His Mighty Power Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

And so it is the Faith of the New Creation Eph 2:10 that performs the believing, its the workmanship of God the Spirit; So it is " That whosoever is believing in Him [By the Power of the Spirit] shall be in possession [hath] everlasting Life Jn 5:24, they did not earn it because of a performed condition, but they were in possession of it when they began to believe ! There is a spiritual seeing of the Son and then believing on Him Jn 6:40, but the Spirit gave the eyes to see ! 3

 

[Brightfame52]

The Work of the Spirit Justifying in Salvation !

The Work of the Spirit in Salvation by Christ , Paul wrote 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Now just how are we members of The Church Justified by the Spirit of Our God, Our Covenant God ? Well, all for whom Christ died, He is their Saviour, because His Redemptive Death paid the full price they owed to God's Law and Justice, and He accomplished this for a whole World of men, and so it is that each member of this World of men shall be made to know sensibly of their sinfulness by nature, and of their natural unbelief, for the Glory of God through Christ Jesus. So one of the ways He Justifies those whom Christ died for, is that He gives them a right view of their sinfulness and unbelief Jn 16:8-9

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Though all men are sinners by nature, none will deny, but not all are sensible to their sinfulness, as was the case with the pharisee and Publican Lk 18; Yes the pharisee in all his religious ways did not sensibly consider himself wicked and sinful before God as the Publican of which he conveniently pointed out Lk 18:11

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

But so much different was the tax collector's prayer, who was made sensible of his sinfulness and need of mercy, and so that is why Jesus stated that He came not to call the righteous [ who think they are] but sinners [made sensible by the Spirit] to repentance Matt 9:13. The point is, yes true, both men were sinners, but only one of them was made to know it sensibly and experientially, and to come to a sense of hopelessness, the reason being is that such ones are now being made to ready have a Righteousness of God, which they are in need of revealed to them as theirs through the Gospel !

 

[Brightfame52]

To Glorify Christ !

The Spirit's Work is to Glorify Christ !

Jn 16:14

He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

That word Glorify here means in this context:

) to cause the dignity and worth of some person or thing to become manifest and acknowledged

This should put to shame those blasphemers who say, that Christ's Death is worthless apart from the Work of The Spirit, may God hold them to that in the Day of Judgment !

This Work of the Spirit is accomplished, Glorifying Christ, by bringing all for whom Christ died into Faith or Obedience. That is what in meant here Acts 5:32

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Or He has given to those now obeying Him, the Spirit being the Author of that Obedience !

1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Again, obedience coming from the Spirit's Sanctifying Work !

He successfully makes known to all the Heirs of Grace the Value and Worth of Christ's Finished Work, and of His Person as God Man !

He not only Glorifies Christ by the Believers initial Believing in Christ for Righteousness and Salvation, but He also is the cause of our continuing in the Faith of Christ, and Living in the Faith of the Son of God, who Loved us and Gave Himself for us Gal 2:20

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 3

 

[Brightfame52]

The Covenant Work of the Holy Spirit under the New Covenant ministration is primarily Gospel Centered, Evangelical Centered in making ready a people prepared of the Lord Lk 1:17

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.



Making ready the redeemed of the Lord, by capacitating them spiritually to embrace the good news of their Salvation. This He does by giving them New Birth, by this He gives them a Spiritual and Sanctified Understanding to spiritually discern the Eternal Truths of the Everlasting Gospel Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

1 Cor 2:12-14

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things the Gospel reveals !

This scripture without doubt confirms New Birth preceding believing the Gospel and in order to to believing it Eph 1:13

13 Which things also we speak [The Gospel], not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

If not for this, the Preaching of the Eternal Truths of the Gospel would be but foolishness 1 Cor 1:18, that same word foolishness is used again in 1 Cor 2:14, so that reasonably denotes that the Preaching of the Cross in 1 Cor 1:18 and the things of the Spirit of God in 1 Cor 2:14 are one and the same, for Paul makes it plain what was the principle of His Preaching here 1 Cor 2:2, this makes it even more plainer that the things of God in vs 14 were related to the Preaching of the Cross or Christ Crucified. The Holy Spirit makes the Called one's meet by New Birth, to be called into the fellowship with the Father and His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ 1 Cor 1:9 ; 2 Thess 2:14, for this Blessed Call in the Gospel and Holy Call 2 Tim 1:9 would not go out to sinners dead in trespasses and sins and yet unholy, alienated from the Life of God, and yet still enemies in their minds by wicked works, for God does not call for and summons fellowship with the likes of that, we must already be spiritually prepared for the Lord !