The Holy Spirit and the word agents in salvation

[evangelist6589]

Allot of people these days say that tracts, confrontations, and open air are "ineffective" as they do not produce instant converts. But allot of people forget John 3 and the power of the water (the Word) and the Spirit. Both the word and the spirit come to play in conversion. I am not sure how much freewill/human responsibility comes to play here, but regardless ultimately the conversion agent is God not us. Many christians utilize the wrong evangelism methodology based on human ability rather than the scripture and the spirit. A great book on the power of the spirit in salvation is called "God in You" by David Jeremiah.

Reading both John MacArthur & David Jeremiah and referring to the scriptures in the gospel of John & the Acts of the apostles has helped me see the light a little better on evangelism methodology and helped me resist the many that are indifferent towards the methods of evangelism that I utilize. Sadly people like Norm Geisler, Josh McDowell, Ravi Zacharias, & Hank Hanegraaf (all brilliant apologists) place far too much of an emphasis on human ability and rhetoric to save people in their books. They have some great books and make great points, but they forget the power of the scripture and the spirit, and forget that all we need to do is preach the word, and let God do the conversion and the saving of lost souls. So by this I utilize not a Calvinist view on evangelism, but a Biblical view on evangelism.

 

[preacher4truth]

So by this I utilize not a Calvinist view on evangelism, but a Biblical view on evangelism.

'Calvinist' and 'Biblical' are synonymous. :wavey: :applause: :thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

'Calvinist' and 'Biblical' are synonymous. :wavey: :applause: :thumbs:

I agree to that statement.....Id further substitute the word Calvinist for Biblicist.

Bib·li·cist (bbl-sst)
n.
1. An expert on the Bible.
2. One who interprets the Bible literally.

 

[jbh28]

Allot of people these days say that tracts, confrontations, and open air are "ineffective" as they do not produce instant converts. But allot of people forget John 3 and the power of the water (the Word) and the Spirit. Both the word and the spirit come to play in conversion. I am not sure how much freewill/human responsibility comes to play here, but regardless ultimately the conversion agent is God not us. Many christians utilize the wrong evangelism methodology based on human ability rather than the scripture and the spirit. A great book on the power of the spirit in salvation is called "God in You" by David Jeremiah.

Reading both John MacArthur & David Jeremiah and referring to the scriptures in the gospel of John & the Acts of the apostles has helped me see the light a little better on evangelism methodology and helped me resist the many that are indifferent towards the methods of evangelism that I utilize. Sadly people like Norm Geisler, Josh McDowell, Ravi Zacharias, & Hank Hanegraaf (all brilliant apologists) place far too much of an emphasis on human ability and rhetoric to save people in their books. They have some great books and make great points, but they forget the power of the scripture and the spirit, and forget that all we need to do is preach the word, and let God do the conversion and the saving of lost souls. So by this I utilize not a Calvinist view on evangelism, but a Biblical view on evangelism.

Maybe I'm misreading you, but what you posted is the Calvinist view on evangelism. You made good points which I bolded above. We are to share the gospel, but the Spirit does the actual work in the hearts of the unbeliever.

 

[evangelist6589]

Maybe I'm misreading you, but what you posted is the Calvinist view on evangelism. You made good points which I bolded above. We are to share the gospel, but the Spirit does the actual work in the hearts of the unbeliever.

I dont agree with Limited Atonement and that is my major issue with their system. Please no discussions on that topic for it wont end until Christ returns. Anyways I agree we are to share the gospel. Problem is I attend a church where the people are lukewarm, or they think evangelism is only inviting people to church, and not passing out tracts, open air preaching, or confronting people on the streets. Because people have chosen to ignore what I am saying this tells me they are indifferent. For this I plan to open air preach against all the lukewarm and indifferent christians.

 

[jbh28]

I dont agree with Limited Atonement and that is my major issue with their system. Please no discussions on that topic for it wont end until Christ returns.

no problem.

Anyways I agree we are to share the gospel. Problem is I attend a church where the people are lukewarm, or they think evangelism is only inviting people to church, and not passing out tracts, open air preaching, or confronting people on the streets. Because people have chosen to ignore what I am saying this tells me they are indifferent. For this I plan to open air preach against all the lukewarm and indifferent christians.

As Christians, we are to spread the gospel. As you mentioned, it is the Spirit that does the work in the heart of the unbeliever.

 

[Forest]

no problem.


As Christians, we are to spread the gospel. As you mentioned, it is the Spirit that does the work in the heart of the unbeliever.

The only way the Spirit can reveal the truth in the scriptures is to those who have already been quickened by God and have the Spirit deweling within them. The natural man thinks that any thing that is of a spiritual nature is foolishness, 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[kyredneck]

....But allot of people forget John 3 and the power of the water (the Word) and the Spirit. Both the word and the spirit come to play in conversion.....

You do realize that your presupposition of gospel means regeneration is causing you to force this into the passage, don't you? Physical birth and spiritual birth are the two elements Christ is referring to here, nothing else.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Jn 3:5 could easily be translated as, "Except one be born of water EVEN the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!"

You gospel means folks make the same error as the Jews did, Jn 5:39.

 

[Forest]

Allot of people these days say that tracts, confrontations, and open air are "ineffective" as they do not produce instant converts. But allot of people forget John 3 and the power of the water (the Word) and the Spirit. Both the word and the spirit come to play in conversion. I am not sure how much freewill/human responsibility comes to play here, but regardless ultimately the conversion agent is God not us. Many christians utilize the wrong evangelism methodology based on human ability rather than the scripture and the spirit. A great book on the power of the spirit in salvation is called "God in You" by David Jeremiah.

Reading both John MacArthur & David Jeremiah and referring to the scriptures in the gospel of John & the Acts of the apostles has helped me see the light a little better on evangelism methodology and helped me resist the many that are indifferent towards the methods of evangelism that I utilize. Sadly people like Norm Geisler, Josh McDowell, Ravi Zacharias, & Hank Hanegraaf (all brilliant apologists) place far too much of an emphasis on human ability and rhetoric to save people in their books. They have some great books and make great points, but they forget the power of the scripture and the spirit, and forget that all we need to do is preach the word, and let God do the conversion and the saving of lost souls. So by this I utilize not a Calvinist view on evangelism, but a Biblical view on evangelism.

You do know that conversion and regeneration are two different ocassions, don't you? Conversion (turning away from the life you are leading to a more obedient life) always follows sometime after that we are regenerated (born again). Regeneration is hardly noticed. John 3:8, the wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth, so is every one that is born of the spirit. Conversion, unlike regeneration, comes dramaticly. Heb 10:32-33, But call to rememberance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated (converted), ye endured a great fight of afflictions; partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions, and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. When Paul was converted on the road to Damaskas he experianced a very dramatic event. We have nothing to do with being regenerated, God by himself does that, but Paul says that we can be instrumental in converting the regenerated souls.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Allot of people these days say that tracts, confrontations, and open air are "ineffective" as they do not produce instant converts.

I have seen them work.....The point is to preach the gospel....period. I take an "any and all" approach. All methodologies have their merit. Some methodologies may be more or less "effective" (in the sense of counting sheer numbers of converts) in various points throughout history, but they all remain valid. Be "all things to all people"

Many christians utilize the wrong evangelism methodology based on human ability rather than the scripture and the spirit.

Other than some forms of heresy, I don't think there is really any such thing. However one is gifted to do it....DO IT!

based on human ability

We are to be "wise as serpents" WE DO have "human ability" but remember.."Every good gift and every great gift is from above and cometh down from the Father of Lights..." Any "human ability" we have is a talent God would have given us that he demand we USE!!

Sadly people like Norm Geisler, Josh McDowell, Ravi Zacharias, & Hank Hanegraaf (all brilliant apologists) place far too much of an emphasis on human ability and rhetoric to save people in their books.

They are using their gifts apologists plant seeds...they do not usually claim that they harvest as well as others....but I assure you they often do! They are only one cog in the wheel.

and forget that all we need to do is preach the word, and let God do the conversion and the saving of lost souls.

I have no doubt that this is not the case with you..but do you realize that this will or at least could be taken as an excuse for laziness on the part of some?

So by this I utilize not a Calvinist view on evangelism, but a Biblical view on evangelism.

O.K. I am NOT a Calvinist, but two points here:

1.) The "Calvinist" view and the biblical view on Evangelism are the same minus perhaps some Hypers.
2.) If there is a difference...and it would be based on misconceptions... what you are supporting would be the "Calvinist" view.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

God by himself does that,

..........................................................................................................................................

but Paul says that we can be instrumental

Ow...Ow....... this is just............Ouch :BangHead: