The Holy Spirit part deux

[Frogman]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
' . . . you draw no distinctions such as that concerning the Laodocian church is a body of believers (ideally) and as such are not dealt with in the same terms as those who are yet lost in human depravity.'

Answer: Laodocian church members as well as you and me still have the remnants of the Adamic nature in our lives. [I John 1:8] Beyond this I don't think I have to explain that sinners also have the Adamic nature that causes them to commit acts of sinning.

This is plain teaching from scripture, but the plainness is not satisfactory to any who desire to elevate man to a position of the Son of Man.

Answer: Yes, God elevates His people to the level of being children of God, [John :1:12] and we are characterized by God as being the sons of God [I John 3:2] but with the residue of the Adamic nature within. [John 1:8]

This is one of my favorite verses in all of the Bible. 'Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be; but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.' [I John 3:2] In answer to your statement, we have been elevated to a higher position than angels experience. [John 17:23] We are the sons and daughters of the living God. It doesn't get any better than this!

Answer: Laodocian church members as well as you and me still have the remnants of the Adamic nature in our lives. [I John 1:8] Beyond this I don't think I have to explain that sinners also have the Adamic nature that causes them to commit acts of sinning.


Here all your time trying to dispell as false the teaching of the total depravity of man; you seem to embrace that teaching.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Ray Berrian]

Brother Dallas,

We believe also that we have a depraved nature even though we are saved by grace. We do reject the idea of 'Total Depravity.' We also believe that the 'image of God' in sinners and saints has been effaced but not destroyed. If we were totally depraved and had no image of God in us, then all sinners would never respond to the call of the Gospel.

Sinners do understand the basic message of the Cross when offered in simplicity. The Spirit is always there to aid them in believing in Jesus. After all, this is part of His ministry to His created beings, called men and women. Jesus said that He would reprove {not the church} but THE WORLD of sin, righteousness and the coming Judgment.' [John 16:8]

 

[Frogman]

Explain to me what part of man's nature is not depraved. the Word of God says a little leaven leaveneth the whole.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Ray Berrian]

Brother Dallas,

In answer to your post, I believe that every aspect of our human nature has been infested, if you will, with depravity.

Where Calvinists say we are Totally Depraved, we says yes we are depraved but God has also given to us that which He calls, 'the image of God in man.' [Genesis 9:6; James 3:9] Plus, He says that ' . . . He lights every person/sinner who comes into the world.' [John 1:9]

As you recall Jesus said, 'Be as wise as serpents and meek as doves.' This shows us as brethren that we as Christians all have two natures. The first one draws us away from God and the latter nature draws us closer to Him if we desire this. {the nature of a serpent-that depraved Adamic nature of sin and the other the nature of a dove--idea of the Holy Spirit}

By only saying that we are "Totally Depraved" we are only telling one half of the truth. All of the other things that I have spoken about must be compiled into truthful theology. This gives balance and best of all we are prophecying what God desires that we teach and preach.

 

[Frogman]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Brother Dallas,

In answer to your post, I believe that every aspect of our human nature has been infested, if you will, with depravity.

Where Calvinists say we are Totally Depraved, we says yes we are depraved but God has also given to us that which He calls, 'the image of God in man.' [Genesis 9:6; James 3:9] Plus, He says that ' . . . He lights every person/sinner who comes into the world.' [John 1:9]

As you recall Jesus said, 'Be as wise as serpents and meek as doves.' This shows us as brethren that we as Christians all have two natures. The first one draws us away from God and the latter nature draws us closer to Him if we desire this. {the nature of a serpent-that depraved Adamic nature of sin and the other the nature of a dove--idea of the Holy Spirit}

By only saying that we are "Totally Depraved" we are only telling one half of the truth. All of the other things that I have spoken about must be compiled into truthful theology. This gives balance and best of all we are prophecying what God desires that we teach and preach.

Does it not bother you guys in the least to contradict yourselves? The image of God is that man originally possessed in the creation unspotted, now this image in man is tainted, if only because man is subject to death, then it is still tainted, unless now you will argue with me that God too is subject to death. But now Christ has come to restore that which He did not take away; He has done this apart from the will of man; and has purchased the elect of God by His Blood; this will some day raise the saints to a higher position than the first man created in innocence.

You know in the late 60's or early 70's your celebrated theological seminaries taught that God was dead. Imagine that from a well educated group of pious theologians.

Today (June 2000) it was reported a group of theologians (representing several different denominations) studied the Resurrection, the Diety of Christ, etc. around 60% of these agreed they could not faithfully teach Christ was resurrected, around 40% agreed they could not faithfully teach Christ to be the Son of God. Yet when interviewed they still claimed the 'name' of Christian.

Be careful of what you buy brother, whether it has a religious name or not you may be buying into the depths of the doctrine of satan.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Ray Berrian]

Brother Dallas,

I was taking my B.D. degree in the late 60's and I well remember the teaching about God is dead. I think the man who started this belief was Harvey Cox, if I remember correctly.

A man rises or falls on what he teaches out of the Bible. I have known Th.D.'s who taught b oth Greek and Hebrew who could not explain correctly, many portions of the New and Old Testaments. They knew a lot of theology and facts but were very poor exegetes. After all, why use Greek if you are not going to let the language speak to you.

My view is study the Bible and only use expositors and Greek scholars when you 'hit the wall, 'so to speak.

Many pastors are Arminians or Calvinists because they were spoon fed one or the other of these theologies. Few of them really ever questioned whether what they said was true. For example, if you went to a Pentecostal Bible College you would be taught their perspective from their denominational school. The same would be true of a Baptist College. Most schools 'stack the deck,' if you will, with professors who agree with their theories or belief systems. Pastors are 'punched' out of these schools like black and white Mead Composition notebooks from their paper factory.

No one can belief in a theological dogma unless he or she is convinced of its truth coming from the Bible.

My point is education can be an effective tool, but way too often the student of the Word makes a good preacher.