The Holy Spirit

[Jim1999]

I read so much about the Holy SPirit doing this and doing that. This comes up especially about preaching, calling and understanding scripture.

With the variance of actions, just how does one know the Holy Spirit is leading at all? Just perhaps it is really man's best guess, or the application of knowledge, prudence and just good common sense.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Very good questions Jim!

Let's try to narrow down what you want to ask.

John 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

As a Pentecostal I am very aware of the fact that I can be 'compromised' by my openess to the Spiritual Realm

For this reason it is imperative that I study my Bible to ensure I know what content and contextual 'leadings' to expect from God's Holy Spirit...

I must also maintain and nurture a prayer relationship with Jesus.

How else will I learn and know His voice?

In most cases these doingd by the Holy Spirit *could* be called intuition, a hunch, luck, or circumstances...

But, if we really believe God has a plan then we might tend to ascribe happenstance as His Plan...

I have no doubt even Baptists radically against the Gifts of the Spirit are lead this way.

When it comes to the actual Gifts of the Spirit, say, The Word of Knowledge it can be quite dramatic...

In this case you suddenly know information that you know you have no way of knowing in the natural. But, you have absolute confidence that it is in fact 'real actual factual' information...

And, this is usually borne out soon after...

The Holy Spirit is always doing this or that.

But, I am not sure if it is a good idea to attribute everything to the Holy Spirit...

Man has a sliver of God's creative 'bent' and also the ability to put two plus two together to get four...

There are many how-to books on the market so in many cases I tend to believe that while a person may be Spirit Led...

A lot of the actual decision making has been delegated to them and is not a direct command from on high...

Mike Sr.

 

[SpyHunter]

There's something to be said about how the Holy Spirit functions.

Galatians 5:16 Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

Romans 8:13...and mortify the deeds of the flesh by His Spirit...

And a plethora of other verses. We see that the contrast we find is flesh vs spirit. Anything...which you do...that is of spiritual value, relevancy, or edification...is directly or indirectly...by His Spirit. Directly, in that He has pragmatically and transitively lead you to that place; indirectly, He has enabled you to do as Christ did.
The way that I see it is that I cannot directly see light, but it is through light that I see everything else.
C.S. Lewis had these words-- "Putting on Christ is not an action for the elite few. It is the whole of Christianity, as it offers nothing else."
Pray on the implications of that, and the Holy Spirit will not be far away.

Blessings,
SpyHunter

 

[Jim1999]

Two godly pastors are extended a call to the same church. Each has prayed about the situation and each are equally convinced the Holy Spirit has led them to this church. One will be disappointed, but both were convinced they were called.

Certainly, the obvious answer is that the door closed for one but opened for the other. This doesn't negate the first response....I am called to be pastor of this church!

Who was wrong? The errant pastor or the errant people? How does one discern the "calling" of the Holy Spirit? One can apply this example to any given situation.

Cheers,

Jim

PS. I am quite familiar with the scriptures.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

I guess in many ways it depends upon your theological viewpoint concerning just how much Free Will is involved.

I know in my own life I have recieved from the Holy Spirit then gone beyond what was given.

To my own detriment...

Hypothetically, because that's the only way we can really deal with hypothetical situations, I would say that God issued a 'Call' of interest and availability...

Two pastors heard that call. And, probably assumed it was a done deal...

The assumption that the Holy Spirit's calling to research and check out something is a hard and fast "appointment" is a common 'mistake'.

I could throw in the verse about many are called but few are chosen.

The Holy Spirit may have been giving the church board a choice or two to choose from?

Another issue is timing...

They may both, at some point, pastor that church...

Just not right now...

Mike Sr.

 

[Jim1999]

Yes, and to reference another scripture. In the one instance they cast lots for the chosen; in the other, they chose based on reason....which included being full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom......

We are getting closer.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Claudia_T]

Jim,

I think maybe providence would be part of knowing how God is leading. Like unusual doors opening for you or closing?

And maybe if something is from God then He will lay the burden on more than just one person.

Prov:11:14: Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellers there is safety.

Personally Im having a terrible time right now trying to figure out God's will for me and why such strange things are happening. Sometimes its just really hard to know.

Maybe its that of we follow and do the things we DO know are right for sure, then God will give us more light on everything else.

 

[drfuss]

Many years ago, I felt called to the ministry even though I was halfway though college headed for another degree. After agonizing over this, I surrendered to the call and planned on how I would tell my family who were financially supporting me in college. I knew they would not be happy.

After I completely surrendered to the call, the call was lifted. I am convinced God just wanted me to be willing. That could be the case with the two ministers described above.

God's ways are higher than our ways. All we can do is trust Him as He leads us.

However, I do believe God usually calls us to sacriface, not to promotions that benefit us. I always wonder when a minister gets a "call" to a bigger church.

 

[Jim1999]

Just a note. I do have some understanding about how the Holy Spirit works within us and about us. My examples are hypothetical. I am just asking the question to make people think, and see how everyone answers.

Maybe I am trying to show that we just might be more careful with our choices in life, and not so sure that we are so right about so much.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[SpyHunter]

Why do I not see a hypothetical answer to the hypothetical question which puts the fault on man? Granted, God's ways are higher than our own, and so He often does things beyond our understanding. But to take a noble desire (such as pastoring a church) and, even permitting that God has not clearly said, "No," and decide that it is the "leading of the Holy Spirit" when it is nothing more than noble ambition is asking for trouble.
There are things which I desire in myself to do for God. I would love to have automatic and transcendent discernment; that would clear up many mysteries and give me absolute certainty when ministering to someone. But then I would be relying on myself, and not on Him.
I suppose I'm trying to say that part of being lead by the Holy Spirit is to put "you" aside. Jim's hypothetical situation may not apply in those terms.

Blessings,
SpyHunter

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

SpyHunter,

"I Feel Your Pain"...

Gideon used a fleece to discren God's Will...

And, he wanted an absolute assurance of the answer.

So, much so that he asked for a "Reverse" 'fleece'...

His confidence was that God was interested in what he was about to do and He trusted God was able to make his will known...

Very few people I know are patient enough to good through the time and steps to *really* know God's Will...

Americans are a very impatient people...

Yet:

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Romans 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Hope is a vital ingredient in "Faith" without which it is impossible to please God...

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

In the NIV it says...

Isaiah 28:16 So this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
"See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who trusts will never be dismayed.

This ties "Trusting" with "Patience" and Romans (among others) Ties Patience with Faith...

Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

And, sometimes we don't "Wait" because we are afraid of the answer we will get...

Or, deep in our hearts we already know God's Answer...


With all my heart I want to preach... I have a vision for a church... Know who I'd ask to be on my staff...

But, I know myself too well...

It could be Delusions of Granduer, it could be misplaced Pentecostal Ferver, who knows...

So, my "Wait" is based on: With the Commission will come Provision...

1 Corinthians 9:7 Who ever goes to war at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its fruit? Or who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk of the flock?

I know for a fact though...

That my First Calling is To Christ...

My Second Calling is to my Wife...

My Third calling is to my Children...

1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

God has and will provide for my family through me. And, has and will provide for my family when I am unable to do so...

And, I have no doubt that He can and will provide the funds for a pastorate when and if that is His Will...

In the meantime...

I keep Praying and Dreaming.

Mike Sr.