The Huns on the March Again

[OldRegular]

First part of Georgia, then Crimea, now the Ukraine. The Huns are on the march again!

Russian tanks, armored vehicles enter southeast Ukraine

KIEV, Ukraine – A column of Russian tanks and armored vehicles has crossed into southeastern Ukraine, away from where most of the intense fighting has been taking place, a top Ukrainian official said Monday.

Col. Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for Ukraine's National Security Council, told reporters that the column of 10 tanks, two armored vehicles and two trucks crossed the border near Shcherbak and that the nearby city of Novoazovsk was shelled during the night from Russia. He said they were Russian military vehicles bearing the flags of the separatist Donetsk rebels.

In Moscow, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Monday he had no information about the column.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...es-enter-southeast-ukraine/?intcmp=latestnews

 

[poncho]

"KIEV, Ukraine – A column of Russian tanks and armored vehicles has crossed into southeastern Ukraine, away from where most of the intense fighting has been taking place, a top Ukrainian official said Monday."

Uh, where's the evidence?

I've looked and looked and asked around and no one is able to find it. It's not in this article. It's not in any of the articles CMG has posted in another thread. http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=95119 The media hasn't shown it to us. Washington hasn't shown it to us. The Ukrainian government hasn't shown it to us. Marie Harf hasn't shown it to us. Chuck Hagel hasn't shown it to us. Evidently Obama is to busy golfing to show it to us.

So where is it? I mean gee golly wow man don't the Ukrainian "officials" and "Fox News" reporters have cell phones with video cameras like everyone else on the planet?

 

[church mouse guy]

It was in the New York Times and in USA Today that Russia fired artillery in the Ukraine. It was also reported on tv.

 

[poncho]

It was in the New York Times and in USA Today that Russia fired artillery in the Ukraine. It was also reported on tv.

There were indeed more allegations reported but no evidence was offered to verify them. I read all the "reports" CMG is talking about and not one shred of evidence is offered in any of them.

Here they are . . . http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=95119 . . . have a look for yourself. Betcha can't find any evidence in any of them to verify the allegations.

Webster's dictionary defines evidence as . . .

ev·i·dence noun \ˈe-və-dən(t)s, -və-ˌden(t)s\

: something which shows that something else exists or is true

: a visible sign of something

: material that is presented to a court of law to help find the truth about something

I'll take the whole of next week off Baptist Board if anyone here can find the evidence (according to Webster's definition) in these "credible" mainstream news sources that will verify the allegations made within them. I'll even go one better. I'll take the whole of next week off Baptist Board if anyone here can find the evidence (according to Webster's definition) in any "credible" mainstream news source that will verify the allegations made in the reports CMG and OR have posted.

The whole of next week! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[church mouse guy]

Don Poncho, you yourself seem to know more than the press. You yourself need to advise the White House and the Pentagon to relax because you know more than they do.

 

[poncho]

Don Poncho, you yourself seem to know more than the press. You yourself need to advise the White House and the Pentagon to relax because you know more than they do.

No CMG, you yourself and OR need to show us the evidence (see definition above) that proves the allegations you keep posting as facts are true. You and OR have posted these articles as if they were fact so the burden of proof falls on you and OR.

If these allegations hold any water at all it should be an easy matter. So quit stalling and start proving.

 

[church mouse guy]

Don Poncho, you are beyond the pale of logic. The press has reported that the Russians fired inside the Ukraine and you have said that the press reports were false.

The case is closed.

 

[poncho]

Don Poncho, you are beyond the pale of logic. The press has reported that the Russians fired inside the Ukraine and you have said that the press reports were false.

The case is closed.

No. I have not said these reports are false.

All I have done is point out that there is no evidence in the reports you and OR have posted to prove the allegations contained in them are true. And I have asked you numerous times to provide that evidence which so far you have not done.

Thus far you don't even have a case so how can it be closed?

Show me the evidence. Or admit you can't. Don't go trying to weasel your way out of this by making false accusations against me. That's not very Christ like.

My challenge still stands. The whole of next week.

 

[church mouse guy]

Oh, you want to play word games--the reports of Russian atrocities are just alleged and therefore they must be false. The truth of the matter is that you have no proof they the reports are alleged other than your own personal opinion.

 

[poncho]

Oh, you want to play word games--the reports of Russian atrocities are just alleged and therefore they must be false. The truth of the matter is that you have no proof they the reports are alleged other than your own personal opinion.

Had to really reach for that one didn't ya? :laugh:

You said.

The press has reported that the Russians fired inside the Ukraine and you have said that the press reports were false.

To which I honestly responded.

No. I have not said these reports are false.

To which you replied.

The truth of the matter is that you have no proof they the reports are alleged other than your own personal opinion.

Just when I was starting to think you might understand what the word allegation means you go and post this. I hope you didn't hurt yourself twisting that one out.

If you'd concentrate more on finding the missing evidence than trying to put words in my mouth you might have better luck finding it.

Just sayin. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[OldRegular]

Don Poncho, you yourself seem to know more than the press. You yourself need to advise the White House and the Pentagon to relax because you know more than they do.

Take note CMG, all that snuggling up to Putin and Russia comes from the most prolific conspiracy theorist on the BB!:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[poncho]

Take note CMG, all that snuggling up to Putin and Russia comes from the most prolific conspiracy theorist on the BB!

Well OR I guess I earned that. I did engage in "crimethink" by asking you and CMG to provide evidence to prove your allegations were true after all.

Couldn't help but notice neither of you could do it. :smilewinkgrin:

Here's some evidence you won't like.

http://libcom.org/files/NATOs_secret_armies.pdf

Love how you guys are trying to work that "guilt by association" trick to death. Did Hermann Goering teach you that himself or is it just something you picked up along the way while blindly following the neocons to WWIII?

Guilt by Association

Alias:

Bad Company Fallacy. The Company that You Keep Fallacy.

Taxonomy: Logical Fallacy >Informal Fallacy > Red Herring > Guilt by Association > The Hitler Card (I call it the Goering argument, it seems to the argument favored most by OR and CMG these days)

Example:

The al Qaeda Cheering Section. The most telling moment in last night's [State of the Union] speech came after the president noted that "key provisions of the Patriot Act are set to expire next year." In response, notes the New York Times, "some critics in Congress applauded enthusiastically." If Osama bin Laden watched the speech, one imagines him applauding too.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/guiltbya.html

I'm surprised that with all the practice you guys have been getting using this fallacy you haven't become any better at it.

Grown men resorting to worn out propaganda tricks like this to hide the fact they can't prove their own allegations. Now that's funny! :laugh:

 

[poncho]

Ukraine Accuses Russia Of Launching Invasion, Then Promptly Retracts

It has been a busy morning: following a substantial surge in Ukraine separatist activity in the past 24 hours, which saw them capture the strategic Sea of Azov port town of Novoazovsk, a move which the NYT classified as "Ukraine Reports Russian Invasion on a New Front", Ukraine has turned on the disinformation spigot to max resulting in a constant verbal, and headline, diarrhea as follows:

POROSHENKO CONVENES SECURITY COUNCIL ON RUSSIAN `INVASION'

POROSHENKO: SITUATION IN UKRAINE'S EAST DETERIORATED SHARPLY

UKRAINE EU AMBASSADOR CALLS FOR JOINT EFFORT TO `STOP THIS WAR'

POROSHENKO SAYS SECURITY COUNCIL WILL DRAW UP FURTHER PLANS

RUSSIAN ARMY CONTROLS NOVOAZOVSK: UKRAINE SECURITY COUNCIL

YATSENYUK URGES UN SECURITY COUNCIL TO DEBATE UKRAINE SITUATION

So sure was Ukraine that this time (unlike all those previous disinformation launches) Russia has invaded that Anton Herashchenko, adviser to Ukrainian Interior Ministry, actually commented on his Facebook page saying "Invasion of regular Russian army of Putin to Ukraine is an accomplished fact,” Adding that Putin "de-facto places Ukraine on a war-footing at a time when a decree was signed to dissolve parliament."

Well, yes, Ukraine has no government, but Russia of course denied all of it:

PESKOV WON'T COMMENT ON REBEL CLAIM OF RUSSIAN TROOP SUPPORT

All of this latest disinformation propaganda was summarized by Reuters best:

< snip >

So a lot of words all of which were best summarized by Ukraine's Prime Minister in dissolutia, Yatseniuk, who as a reminder does not have an official role any more after the Ukraine government was dissolved (on Twitter) last week:

PUTIN STARTED WAR IN EUROPE, UKRAINE’S PREMIER YATSENYUK SAYS

Ok so far so good: accusations, counteraccusations - we are used to that.

But where things once again got surreal, making everyone not only laugh but wonder how the CIA has lost the plotline so badly, was the following "clarification" headline from Reuters, which noticed some rather substantial change in the language on the website of the Ukraine president:

CORRECTED-UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT POROSHENKO SAYS RUSSIAN TROOPS HAVE BEEN BROUGHT INTO UKRAINE (NOT 'RUSSIAN MILITARY INVASION HAS TAKEN PLACE') - PRESIDENTIAL WEBSITE

Indeed, instead of explicitly saying a "Russian military invasion has taken place", the website now reads: "I have made a decision to cancel my working visit to the Republic of Turkey due to sharp aggravation of the situation in Donetsk region, particularly in Amvrosiivka and Starobeshevo, as Russian troops were actually brought into Ukraine," the President noted."

For all those wondering if to BTFATH or STFR, please sit tight until Ukraine gets its marching orders from the US State Dept whether to brand the "Russian troops being brought into Ukraine" as an invasion, or merely an accidental crossing, depending on how all of this will impact US strategy in Syria, which all of this is really all about: because remember, if and when the US begins to bomb the Assad regime under the guise it is fighting ISIS, all it will do is greenlight Qatar sending its gas pipeline to Europe... which after all has been the plan all along since 2012.

So stay tuned as this "socially-networked war" comedy unfolds before our eyes.

Read More At: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-28/ukraine-accuses-russia-launching-invasion-then-promptly-retracts

So much for your "Russian invasion" OR. If the Ukrainians can't figure out what's going on over there how can you?

 

[church mouse guy]

Next you will be telling us that Poland actually attacked on September 1, 1939.

 

[poncho]

Next you will be telling us that Poland actually attacked on September 1, 1939.

Looks like your "credible Ukrainian sources" can't make up their minds.

Just keep doing what you've been doing, read and repeat, read and repeat, read and repeat. If you say it enough times it must be true. :laugh:

 

[church mouse guy]

Don Poncho, you alone believe that KGB Lt. Col. Putin is a nice guy.

 

[poncho]

Don Poncho, you alone believe that KGB Lt. Col. Putin is a nice guy.

Never said he was a nice guy.

All I've been saying is you neocons need to step back take a deep breath and think for a minute before you go repeating "wolf! wolf! wolf!".

But then I guess at this point you've repeated "wolf! wolf! wolf!" so many times the only way you can deflect the fact that you've bought into all the unfounded allegations without thinking is to to keep pulling out the ole "Hitler Card" aka "guilt by association" fallacy against me to save face.

I don't believe it's working amongst people who still have the capacity to think for themselves. :smilewinkgrin:

Despite a lack of independent confirmation of a Russian invasion, State Department spokesman Jen Psaki said the alleged military action is of “deep concern to us, but we’re also concerned by the Russian government’s unwillingness to tell the truth, even as its soldiers are found 30 miles inside Ukraine.”

The announcement of an unconfirmed Russian invasion of Ukraine is reminiscent of a claim made by Georgia.

In 2010, the Georgian government controlled Imedi TV station reported Russian tanks had crossed the border and the country’s pro-western leader Mikheil Saakashvili had been murdered. The bogus report resulted in mass panic and civilians fleeing their homes.

“Not since Orson Welles persuaded Americans that the Martians had landed, during his hysteria-sparking War of the Worlds radio broadcast, had a whole nation been so duped,” The Guardian reported on March 14, 2010.


http://www.infowars.com/is-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-a-hoax/

I bet you and OR repeated the bogus Georgian government's claim over and over and over again to. You guys probably still believe it's true. :laugh:

 

[church mouse guy]

It seems as if not even the UN believes you, Don Poncho. Time to take a vacation on Martha's Island.

 

[poncho]

It seems as if not even the UN believes you, Don Poncho. Time to take a vacation on Martha's Island.

The UN? Now there's a credible group of international collectivists, I mean individuals. :laugh:

They won't even follow the rules they try to force on everyone else. Kind of like you and your three or four good buddies here. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[church mouse guy]

The UN? Now there's a credible group of international collectivists, I mean individuals. :laugh:

They won't even follow the rules they try to force on everyone else. Kind of like you and your three or four good buddies here. :smilewinkgrin:

Believe it or not the Ukraine's case in front of the UN today is more believable than you, Don Poncho. Why don't you get some of your buddies to back you up as you stand alone against the West here, Don Poncho.