The Importance of Doctrine

[Van]

6) Prayers asking God to intervene and miraculously alter our circumstances are not effective prayers.

We are to pray for God's will to be done in our lives, which addresses our thoughts and actions. God speaks to us in differing ways, but through His word is major. So in order to pray according to His will, we need to have His word abide in our heart, mind and soul. Effective prayers address our commitment to His service, not the other way around.

 

[AustinC]

6) Prayers asking God to intervene and miraculously alter our circumstances are not effective prayers.

We are to pray for God's will to be done in our lives, which addresses our thoughts and actions. God speaks to us in differing ways, but through His word is major. So in order to pray according to His will, we need to have His word abide in our heart, mind and soul. Effective prayers address our commitment to His service, not the other way around.

Of course we seek God's will, but saying "Prayers asking God to intervene and miraculously alter our circumstances are not effective prayers" is demonstrably false since we see David's psalms of prayer doing just that very thing.
Would you say David's prayers for intervention and miraculous altering of his circumstances are wrong and ineffective? Did God make a mistake in sharing these prayers with us?

 

[Van]

Of course we seek God's will, but saying "Prayers asking God to intervene and miraculously alter our circumstances are not effective prayers" is demonstrably false since we see David's psalms of prayer doing just that very thing.
Would you say David's prayers for intervention and miraculous altering of his circumstances are wrong and ineffective? Did God make a mistake in sharing these prayers with us?

Folks, here is yet another example of complete ignorance of the purpose of prayer!!

 

[AustinC]

Folks, here is yet another example of complete ignorance of the purpose of prayer!!

LOL, I forgive you your ignorance, Van.

 

[Van]

LOL, I forgive you your ignorance, Van.

Does this empty suit say what the purpose of prayer is? Of course not as it seems he usually does not study a subject before he claims another view is wrong. I kid you not...

 

[AustinC]

Does this empty suit say what the purpose of prayer is? Of course not as it seems he usually does not study a subject before he claims another view is wrong. I kid you not...

Van, did David offer "Prayers asking God to intervene and miraculously alter (his) circumstances"? Were they ineffective?

My point is that you are not stating what the Bible states.

 

[Van]

Folks, for those actually interested in the purpose of prayer.
Note how it states number 6 from post #21 above.
What is the purpose of prayer? | GotQuestions.org

Author Warren Wiersbe sums up the purpose of prayer well: “The immediate purpose of prayer is the accomplishing of God’s will on earth; the ultimate purpose of prayer is the eternal glory of God”​

 

[AustinC]

Folks, for those actually interested in the purpose of prayer.
Note how it states number 6 from post #21 above.
What is the purpose of prayer? | GotQuestions.org

Author Warren Wiersbe sums up the purpose of prayer well: “The immediate purpose of prayer is the accomplishing of God’s will on earth; the ultimate purpose of prayer is the eternal glory of God”​

What does God say?

*Revelation 8:2-5*
Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.

Was David wrong to pray for miraculous deliverance?

*Psalm 143:1-12*
Hear my prayer, O Lord; give ear to my pleas for mercy! In your faithfulness answer me, in your righteousness! Enter not into judgment with your servant, for no one living is righteous before you. For the enemy has pursued my soul; he has crushed my life to the ground; he has made me sit in darkness like those long dead. Therefore my spirit faints within me; my heart within me is appalled. I remember the days of old; I meditate on all that you have done; I ponder the work of your hands. I stretch out my hands to you; my soul thirsts for you like a parched land. Selah Answer me quickly, O Lord! My spirit fails! Hide not your face from me, lest I be like those who go down to the pit. Let me hear in the morning of your steadfast love, for in you I trust. Make me know the way I should go, for to you I lift up my soul. Deliver me from my enemies, O Lord! I have fled to you for refuge. Teach me to do your will, for you are my God! Let your good Spirit lead me on level ground! For your name’s sake, O Lord, preserve my life! In your righteousness bring my soul out of trouble! And in your steadfast love you will cut off my enemies, and you will destroy all the adversaries of my soul, for I am your servant.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

He identified the essential problem in US churches today as the drift away from a concern for the truth.

I find this statement to be insightful. It’s not just drifting away from the truth, but drifting away from CONCERN FOR THE TRUTH.

It is, I think, the result of decades of teaching in the church and out of the church, that objective truth, absolute truth, doesn’t exist. Everything is relative to the individual and feelings are more important than mentally understanding God’s word.

Thanks for sharing.

peace to you

The logical conclusion of that is the modern Methodist church and its offshoots.

 

[Van]

What does God say? SNIP

Note another copy and paste deflection, rather than addressing the fact that asking God to do for you, but not asking for help in you doing for God reflects an ineffective prayer life.

What about Acts 13:22?

What about Acts 13:36?

 

[Van]

"Moralistic Therapeutic Deism consists of beliefs like these: 1. "A god exists who created and ordered the world and watches over human life on earth." 2. "God wants people to be good, nice, and fair to each other, as taught in the Bible and by most world religions." 3. "The central goal of life is to be happy and to feel good about ones self." 4. "God does not need to be particularly involved in one's life except when God is needed to resolve a problem." 5. "Good people go to heaven when they die.""

1) Yes God exists and "ordered" (established natural law) our created planet, and does watch over human life on earth.

2) God wants people to "Love God with all their heart, mind and soul, and to love their neighbor as themselves."

3) Religions other than Christianity are tribal, advocating a we/them world view.

4) Yes, the Bible teaches we are to love God and enjoy life.

5) The central question of the gospel is: "Do we depend upon God or upon something else?

6) Prayers asking God to intervene and miraculously alter our circumstances are not effective prayers.

7) There are no "good people" and unless redeemed by God and washed by the blood of Jesus, everyone suffers eternal punishment in the afterlife.

 

[Van]

Politicians use ambiguity disingenuously to hide the fact that specific doctrine would alienate some people. I remember when someone asked, "What does Family Values mean?" And the candid answer was "Whatever you think it means!"

Churches that preach like Arminians but believe like Calvinists fall into that same category. Churches present ambiguous "statements of faith" to attract.

You wouldn;t know a group like that?

 

[Alan Gross]

Excerpt from full article at:
Pleasant Ridge Baptist Church
an independent sovereign grace church - DOCTRINE IS GOOD

"With the rise of groups outside of the local church, it is obvious that doctrine has been relegated to a position of non-importance. However, parachurch groups are not the cause of neglected doctrine, they are the result.

"Paul said 1 Timothy 4:16, "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." Had pastors and teachers just a few decades ago followed Paul's advise, they could have saved themselves, and their churches from becoming involved in unscriptural organizations, splits, and factions. If we are grounded in the doctrines of the local church, it will not be tempting to become involved in ecumenical practices.

"There are several reasons why Bible doctrine is neglected in many churches today.

"1. Some neglect doctrine because they view it as Intimidating. Afraid of how it will change them.

"2. Some view it as Irrelevant. It doesn't fit todays problems so many centuries after the fact.


"3. While others view it as being Insensitive towards those of other "faiths." Dogmatic doctrinal positions make other denominations with differing doctrines feel threatened and call us bigoted. But that's why the Jews killed Jesus!

"But right doctrine is INVALUABLE if we aim to please the Lord.

"The diligent searching of Bible truth for our personal growth in the knowledge of God’s word needs to be a part of our practical goals.

"The foolishness of neglecting doctrine can be illustrated by choosing a doctor. Which would you pick, one who never had any use for a medical school, or one who was guided by collective effective medical practices? One who wanted to experiment on you, or one who treated you with experience? Which brain surgeon do you want opening up your head, the one who decides what he=ll do once he gets in there, or one who knows what to do before he begins?

"What's going to happen at the end of life when it comes time to take the final test? Will Jesus be able to say "thou hast been faithful over a few things..." @ Will he view our church as without spot or wrinkle?@

"We are foolish to ignore the instructions of the Bible. We will be judged accordingly and we can lose rewards because we were not faithful and responsible in following it. John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”