The Importance of the ____ - Tribulation

[Salty]

How important is the ____-Trib doctrine?

On a scale of 0 -5 - how would you rate yourself.

0 = no inportance at all

1= little inportance

2= I do beleive it, but generally not dogamatic about it

3= I am firm on it - somewhat inportant

4= must accept to be a member of our local church

5- must believe to be a teacher or leader in our church

6= must believe to obtain salvation

 

[Greektim]

How important is the ____-Trib doctrine?

On a scale of 0 -5 - how would you rate yourself.

0 = no inportance at all

1= little inportance

2= I do beleive it, but generally not dogamatic about it

3= I am firm on it - somewhat inportant

4= must accept to be a member of our local church

5- must believe to be a teacher or leader in our church

6= must believe to obtain salvation

1 or 2... it is part of interpreting Scriptures and understanding life in between the time for today, but I will fellowship and "do church" w/ all sorts of views.

By the way, I'm an A-Tribber

 

[OldRegular]

How important is the ____-Trib doctrine?

On a scale of 0 -5 - how would you rate yourself.

0 = no inportance at all

1= little inportance

2= I do beleive it, but generally not dogamatic about it

3= I am firm on it - somewhat inportant

4= must accept to be a member of our local church

5- must believe to be a teacher or leader in our church

6= must believe to obtain salvation

The "true believers' have always endured tribulation, sometimes horrific tribulation as was experienced by the Church at the hands on the Roman Empire, both the unholy and the so-called Holy!. That is the promise of Jesus Christ.

John 16:33. These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

As for the so-called GRrrreat Tribulation of pre-trib dispensationalism I don't see any Scriptural support for that.

 

[Salty]

...As for the so-called GRrrreat Tribulation of pre-trib dispensationalism I don't see any Scriptural support for that.

Do you see any Scriptural support for Mid, Post or A Trib?

Keep in mind - this is NOT a Pre-Trib thread - it is a (fill-in-the-blank) Trib thread.

 

[kyredneck]

20 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath:
21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

18 And pray ye that it be not in the winter.
19 For those days shall be tribulation, such as there hath not been the like from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never shall be.
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13

22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

No other slaughter/genocide in history, including the massacres at Merv and Nanking, matches that which occurred at Jerusalem A.D. 70.

 

[Greektim]

20 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath:
21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

18 And pray ye that it be not in the winter.
19 For those days shall be tribulation, such as there hath not been the like from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never shall be.
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13

22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

No other slaughter/genocide in history, including the massacres at Merv and Nanking, matches that which occurred at Jerusalem A.D. 70.

I would actually allow for hyperbole by Jesus here. Also this was and OT way of talking about events such as these taken from Exodus.

 

[kyredneck]

"...great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be..."

No, not hyperbole, it happened; and I probably used the wrong term with 'genocide', it was suicide, the infighting/civil war/self destruction that broke out among 'that generation' killed as many or more as the Roman army did. They literally became demon possessed mad men that turned on each other. From that aspect alone it was indeed "great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be".

 

[DHK]

20 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath:
21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

18 And pray ye that it be not in the winter.
19 For those days shall be tribulation, such as there hath not been the like from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never shall be.
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13

22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

No other slaughter/genocide in history, including the massacres at Merv and Nanking, matches that which occurred at Jerusalem A.D. 70.

But it was local. And many other catastrophes have happened which have encompassed a far greater area than just Jerusalem, and have gone against more than just one nation or people such as the Jews.

That is what The Great Tribulation is about. It is not about the persecution of God's people--Jew or Gentile.
It is about God's Wrath being poured on those who are against the people of God. It is world-wide in scope, affecting every area of the earth, not just one city. More than one half of the population of the world will be destroyed.

Consider the facts: Suppose the population were to quickly rise to 8 billion, and then Jesus comes for His own (the rapture). What would happen?

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
--Of 8 billion one quarter will be killed here, leaving six billion.

Revelation 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
--How many died here we are not told.

Revelation 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
--But here one third of the remaining six billion are killed.
That leaves four billion, or just one half, if that left living on the earth.

More than one half of the population of the entire world (not just one city) will be wiped out. They will be the enemies of the Jews, the enemies of the Christians. This has nothing to do with the persecution of either Christians or Jews.
It is God's wrath being poured out on all the ungodly of the world.

 

[Salty]

May I MAKE A REQUEST

This Thread is not about discussing different views of the Trib -

Rather - it is HOW MUCH IMPORTANCE you put on the view that you and or your church believes.

Trib is a great discussion - but please start a new thread - Keep in mind - it has been Pre-ordained that there should be no further discussion about you defending your position of the trib.:smilewinkgrin: on this thread.! raying:

 

[prophet]

I would actually allow for hyperbole by Jesus here. Also this was and OT way of talking about events such as these taken from Exodus.

Much OT prophecy, including Jesus's (until the death of the Testator), referenced 70A.D.

Matthee 24 is unique, in that it falls under this division:

Mar 4:34
34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Mat 24:3
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

They asked about the sign of His Coming, and He specifically gave a timetable to the officers of His Church.

Mat 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now what this doesnt settle is MT/PostT.

Daniel says this:

Dan 12:12
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Which puts the end of the elect's participation (tribulation) at 2&1/2 months after the 3&1/2 year mark.

If we call this the end of 'The Great Tribulation', and the beginning of the 'Day of Wrath', then Mid Trib/Post Trib become the same basic teaching.

So, yes there is plain Scriptural evidence, no PHD needed, for Mid/Post.

As for Pre....much contortion is needed, to fit in that box.

A Mil., requires a disregard for face value in prophecy.
It takes less contortion, simply because so little plain teaching addresses the Mil.
But Rev. 20 seems to be too clear to ignore.

This is a quick summary on my part.

And I know of not one single Baptist Creed or Confession that includes drawing a line over eschatology...so I dont.

 

[Greektim]

Testing... can't post in another thread.

 

[kyredneck]

May I MAKE A REQUEST

This Thread is not about discussing different views of the Trib -

10-4

FWIW, I voted 'other answer' and articulated it.

 

[preachinjesus]

Not accepting a literal, seven year tribulation, I said "Of little importance."

It is good to discuss, but, in my view, pointless to conclude about.