The importance of the doctrine of the Trinity

(Mark 13:32 KJV) But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

How do anti-Trintarians explain that?

 

Sola,

That tells ME that God KNOWS more than His Son Jesus. God is ALL KNOWING and Jesus IS NOT.

If He lacks just ONE piece of information in this vast universe, then He is not omniscient.

God Bless

 

Forgive me, 3AM, I have not been keeping up with this much lately. But do you deny that Jesus is God? Just wondering.

Neal

 

God, as a man was not all knowing. He was human like you and I. Here is where we have to make another distinction b/t the eternal Spirit of Jesus and the Man Jesus.

This verse would better us as well.

The doctrine of the Trinity says that God the Father, and God the Son, are Co Equal

If God is a Trinity and they are equal how do you explain this verse?

God bless

 

Not it isn't! Jesus did NOT say "while I am on earth I will not know the time but when I ascend back to heaven I will" but He said "no one knows but the Father, not even the Son" (para). What does this mean? It means that the Son as a distinct Person from the Father has limited Himself by His own choice to not know a certain thing even though He is all-knowing. The point is that if the Father and the Son were one Person and not 2 distinct Persons there would be a problem. But we know that God can limit Himself from knowing when He desires to do so, for He did so at the Tower of Babel saying "Let US go down and see" - what, could God not see without "going down"? Of course He could!

 

I don’t believe that God (Jesus Christ) ever laid aside any of His attributes. It may be more accurate to say that He at times limited Himself. He did not always display His power of omnipotence, for example, although at times He did. He calmed the waters, fed the 5,000, healed the sick, walked on water, raised Lazarus from the dead. But He chose not to call angels from Heaven to deliver Him from being crucified. He could have. But He limited Himself in exercising his power of authority.
Christ is omniscience, and knows the heart of every man. He demonstrated that many times in the gospels. He demonstrated that to Nathaneal:
John 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Jesus knew about Nathaneal because He was all-knowing, omniscient.

Jesus demonstrated his omnipresence.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
--He tells Nicodemus that He who speaks to him (Christ) is right now in Heaven. Christ is both on earth and in Heaven at the same time. Only God can do this.

He never laid aside His “Godhood” or his powers; He simply chose at certain times not to exercise some of them.
DHK

 

Jesus did not "appear in the form of God" he took on the "form of a man" as Philipians 2 states.

He was weak, hungry, tired, limitted in knowledge, power, word. He Himself states "I can of my own self do NOTHING".

He never claimed "well of course I am not hungry - I am God - I don't GET hungry, thirsty, tired".

Satan came to test Him in the wilderness knowing that He was in human form - limitted, weak, relying on His Father for strength - as that is the position in which He placed Himself when He chose to come to earth "Tempted in ALL points as WE are YET without sin" -- He "learned obedience".

Christ was truly our "example".

He condemned "sin IN the flesh" by defeating Sin on our ground - as one of us - He succeeds where Adam failed. Romans 5, 8.

In Christ,

Bob

 

I don't buy that line of reasoning, Bob. When Satan tempted Jesus, Jesus responded saying "thou shalt not tempt the LORD thy God" obviously referring to Himself as "the LORD thy God" which He could not lawfully do if He had emptied Himself of His Godhood because if He had emptied Himself of His Godhood then He would not have been "the LORD thy God."

 

When Jesus said "you shall not tempt the Lord thy God" it was in response to the temptation to jump off the temple heights and make God catch Him since God's Word promised that God would send His angels to protect Christ.

But WHY does GOD need protection by Angels - beings that are LESS than God?

Furthermore - the response to this is NOT to obey and cease to tempt Christ more (as though Satan has just been forbidden from tempting Christ since He is God) - for this is merely the 2nd of 3 temptations - ANOTHER ONE follows. It is clearly addressing the tempation that CHRIST should put the Father in the position of having to save Him as He casts Himself off the temple.

Finally, "tempted in all points as WE are" Heb 4:15 makes it clear. For "God CAN NOT be Tempted" James 1:13 - yet Christ "emptied Himself" Phil 2:7 so that as a man He COULD succeed where the first Adam failed (Romans 5). Tempted JUST as we are - yet without sin.

In Christ,

Bob

 

I think the problem is that you stop short of Philipians 2:8.

(Phil 2:8 KJV) And being found in fashion [Gr. schema - outward condition] as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

What about these?

(Col 1:19 KJV) For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

(Col 2:9 KJV) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

(John 3:13 KJV) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

If He was not still God then how could He still be in heaven and yet also on earth?

 

He is the God-man. In the Form of God - he "emptied Himself" and TOOK ON the form of man - instead of appearing in infinite Glory and Power as He did at Sinai - He comes in the form of man and THEN it is God the Father that says of Him "This is MY BELOVED Son in whom I am well plesaed".

It is to the Father that He prays - not to Himself "Father forgive them" ... It is to the FAther He instructs us to pray and then says "I do not I will ask the Father on your behalf - for the Father HIMSELF loves you"..

It is to the Father He goes in John 14 "I go to the Father and you should be glad for Me for the Father is greater than I".

Christ was not "IN Heaven" while on Earth.

But that does not mean that He was not God - He emptied Himself of God powers - relying totally on the Father - not His own infinite ability.

So it is that Satan could "tempt" Him to jump off the temple to see IF the Father would make good on His promise "to bear Him up least at any time He strike His foot against a stone".

When He died - it was not infinite God that ceased to live, in Hiw humanity He could suffer, could die - could hunger, could become weary, could be discouraged "My God My God why have you forsaken Me?".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Philippians 2:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Where does it say he "emptied himself?"
He laid aside some of his attributes while on earth. He never emptied Himself of His Godhood. That, my friend, is heresy. Christ is God. Anyone that believes otherwise is a heretic. He is fully man and fully God at the same time. He became man as the Scripture says. But He never gave up His Godhood. He always remained deity. He always was and always will be God, without beginning and without end.
DHK

 

"Existing in the FORM of God"

"taking on the FORM of a bond-servant ... a man".

It is the "same".

Is is therefore the God-Man but as God He "Emptied Himself" and became a man... who not only COULD be tempted in all points as we are - but WAS tempted in "all points as WE are".

As a man He could truly say "Of My own self I CAN do NOTHING".

After being raised from the Dead and returning briefly to heaven - He announces "ALL power HAS BEEN GIVEN to Me" in Matt 28.

Christ did not come to earth as an infant having "ALL Power". The power of the Universe was not wielded by the infant that could not yet speak.

While on Earth Christ could accurately state "The Father IS greater than I" John 14.

Truly He DID "Empty HIMSELF" to become found in "THE FORM of a bond-servant".

IN Christ,

Bob

 

Yes He was.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
--Plainly does Christ say to Nicodemus that He, the Son of man, is in Heaven while at the same time talking to Nicodemus. Christ is God, and this is one instance of his omnipresence.

Going back to Phil.2:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

What did Christ "empty himself" of? Was it His divinity? Never. He never, at anytime surrendered His deity. He emptied Himself of the glory that he had in Heaven. He emptied Himself of his majesty to some degree. He limited Himself in many of his attributes choosing not to use them at all times. And yet He was fully God. It is possible for God to confine Himself, and He did. He humbled Himself. But always He was fully God, and fully man. He never had a beginning. He will never have an ending. He is the Alpha and Omega; the Beginning and the End.
DHK

 

DHK,

Interesting that you would post that verse.

One that DEMOLISHES the idea of immediate reward.

Hmmmm

NO MAN has ascended into heaven.

Interesting.