The Islam Thread

[Ben W]

Greetings all,

The reason that the "Truth about Islam" thread was closed, was because it appeared that it was lurching off topic and into a situation where people condemn islam.

I have no problem condemning Islam, it is a false religion and people in it are being decieved.

Yet the content of the thread was about Moderate Islam and the discussions within it that are pro israel and other issues. Yet it does not seem that we can have that discussion keeping to that idea hence the closure of the thread.

 

[USN2Pulpit]

People derail and hijack threads here all the time - until a few pages later, the conversation doesn't look anything like the original post!

 

[don 3426]

what do u mean by "the content of the thread was about Moderate Islam and the discussions within it that are pro israel and other issues." cause it sounds like ur saying moderate islam is ok, im not saying u are it just looks confusing.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Speaking of which, Tony Snow is interview Manji on the O'Reilly Factor tonight.

Very interesting, and refreshing to hear.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[rsr]

I saw it, at least a good part of it. Interesting that she has no problem "celebrating" Christmas, in her own way, of course.

Still, I don't know how much her "pro-Western" viewpoint represents more than a minority, even among Muslims in North America, let alone in the Middle East. Wonder if she get invited to appear on Aljazeera?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Why would she want to appear on a pro terrorist network? I think there are more pro-western Muslims out there than what is reported in the MSM. Many, however, are not willing to express those views on pro-terrorist Al-Jazeera in fear societies where such views could result in imprisonment, torture, or death.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[rsr]

Compared to most of the Arab media, Aljazeera is comparatively mild (hard to believe, given its anti-Western bias, but the state-controlled outlets are even more rabid, allowing the wrath of the people toward the ruling elites to be deflected against the West) and willing occasionally to present the views of Westerners.

From a special report on the Aljazeera Web site, an interview with Danielle Pletka of the American Enterprise Institute:

Aljazeera: It is important to note that many Arab intellectuals, and people in the street, say that reforms cannot be coerced, cannot be installed from abroad. They have to come from within. What is your view?

Pletka: People who say things like that are in the service of dictatorial governments.

I noticed that the loudest voices who say that reform must come from within are people who have a vested interest in continuing the kind of governments that exist in the Middle East currently.

And that is, quasi-dictatorships, authoritarian state control.

If reform is not insisted upon from outside, even if it is delivered from within, then it will not happen. And we have plenty of precedents to prove it.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I would totally agree with Pletka. I wonder if he is in prison yet?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[rsr]

She's an American; the point was that Aljazeera upon occasion allows different points of view.

The general bias of Aljazeera is that Muslim (particularly Arab) nations suffer from a lack of democracy and lack of development, which the U.S., of course, if trying to exploit for its own interests.

It ain't exactly jihad.

 

[robycop3]

Thing is, islam is a false religion using God's name in vain, as it denies the Deity of Jesus, in the face of the Koran's support of His virgin birth. It doesn't matter whether or not "I" condemn them; they don't hafta answer to ME for their religious beliefs. I believe there are some suicide bombers right now singing, "O Where Did I Go Wrong?"

 

[Ben W]

I have to admit that I have wondered what the look would have been on the Suicide Bombers faces as they are greeted by Satan and introduced to an eternity of hell fire? How would a coward really deal with a situation like that

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Hey...where are my virgins?

seriously,

Roby,

I agree with you. I however, don't think (and I coudl be wrong) the point of this thread is to argue the legitimacy of the Islamic faith (as I am sure just about everyone here agrees it is a false religion). However, I think it serves as an example of saying that not every Muslim is a terrorist who hates Jews and Americans and wants to murder them.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Turns out they are not virgins after all but are Virginians and those guys are getting beat pretty bad by those Virginians.Not my idea of paridise.

 

[Archeryaddict]

I think I remember Jesus saying that he came not to condem the world because the fall of man it was already condemned, Paraphrasing of course

Lets stop with all the condemnation and show them the Love of Jesus.

Can Hate cast out Hate?

WWJD?

 

[cal]

Hi I'm knew. I need the differences between Isam and Christianity. The facts not opinions. What does the koran say how to get to heaven how are muslims to live everyday life. That sort of thing. Please help

 

[Ben W]

To put it simply, Christians believe that God came to earth as Jesus. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet.

Christians have an assurance of Salvation. Yet interestingly a muslim does not know if he is saved or not. One of the main differences between Christianity and Islam is the close relationship that a Christian has to God, whereas in Islam God is very much distant and not neccesarraly all loving towards creation.

 

[DHK]

Islam is a religion of works. It is based on five pillars:
1. The kalmah: A recitation that Allah is great and that Mohammed is his prophet.
2. Ramadan: One month of the year is designated for fasting.
3. The Hajj: Once in a lifetime of a Muslim he must make a pilgrimmage to the sacred Kaabah (the tomb of Mohammed) in Saudia Arabia.
4. Alms: Every Muslim must give a certain percentage of their income to the poor.
5. Prayer: The Muslim is required to prayer five times per day at the time that the Maulvi calls him to from the Mosque.
There is a sixth. That is being a martyr or fighting in a holy war--a jihaad. This is the only way to guarantee a place in paradise.

Their god is a fatalistic god. At the judgement it is up to Allah whether or not you will enter paradise. If you have been a relatively good Muslim, and Allah is in a bad mood he may consign you to Hell any way. There is no guarantee of salvation. Allah is distant, sovereign, impersonal, and fatalistic.

Thus if you examine such a disaster as the Sunami disaster that recently affected thousands upon thousands of people--mostly Muslims, you will find that Muslims (even from western nations) is the one group that gave the least to the relief of the victims or the survivors of the tragedy. Why? All is in Allah's hand. Whatever will be will be. It was meant to happen. Allah decreed it to be so. Their religion is based on pure fatalism.

There are 99 attributes of Allah, but love is not one of them. Christ is only a prophet, and Mohammed is greater than Christ. Every verse (according to them) in the Bible has been changed and is thus corrupted. The only pure Word of God today can only be found in the Koran.

To say that Christ is the Son of God, as we do, means (to them), that Christ was born out of a sexual union between God the Father and some other spiritual being.
These are some of the beliefe of Islam. They have the freedom to believe and preach their religion in our nations. If we go to their countries and preach Christ, while at the same time exposing Mohammed as a false prophet we would face the death penalty in many Islamic nations.
DHK

 

[cal]

Many thanks DHK
To all here please pray that I might witness with patience and love. I do despise false religeons but it is not the person's fault (untill he rejects Christ) that he has been poorly educated.
Still it is the work of the Holy Spirit, I just arrange the meeting.

If there are any references from the Koran proving fatalism or anyhting else please post.

a soldier in Christ

 

[DHK]

http://www.rim.org/muslim/islam.htm

http://debate.org.uk/

You can get quite a bit of good information from the above websites.
DHK

 

[Jacob Webber]

This is just my View on the issue and backed by Scripture as well, but I may be wrong.

YHWH or Jehovah in the True aspect is the Trinity of the Father to Son and the Holy Spirit. In order to have a relationship with God you must accept His Son Jesus.

Now you can recognize God, Allah, Gott, Lord, Jehovah(YHWH) and Pray to Him and your Prayers be heard even thou you have not yet accepted Jesus as your Savior.

Refence.
Quote:





Act 10:1In Caesarea there lived a Roman army officer named Cornelius, who was a captain of the Italian Regiment. 2He was a devout man who feared the God of Israel, as did his entire household. He gave generously to charity and was a man who regularly prayed to God. 3One afternoon about three o'clock, he had a vision in which he saw an angel of God coming toward him. "Cornelius!" the angel said.


4Cornelius stared at him in terror. "What is it, sir?" he asked the angel. And the angel replied, " "Your prayers and gifts to the poor have not gone unnoticed by God! ! 5Now send some men down to Joppa to find a man named Simon Peter. 6He is staying with Simon, a leatherworker who lives near the shore. Ask him to come and visit you."

30Cornelius replied, "Four days ago I was praying in my house at three o'clock in the afternoon. Suddenly, a man in dazzling clothes was standing in front of me. 31He told me, ` Cornelius, your prayers have been heard, and your gifts to the poor have been noticed by God! 32Now send some men to Joppa and summon Simon Peter. He is staying in the home of Simon, a leatherworker who lives near the shore.' 33So I sent for you at once, and it was good of you to come. Now here we are, waiting before God to hear the message the Lord has given you."






Quote:




The Gentiles Receive the Holy Spirit

44Even as Peter was saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who had heard the message. 45The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles, too. 46And there could be no doubt about it, for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.




Now Cornelius had not accepted Christ into His Heart yet but recognized that the God of Abraham was God and prayed to Him, Just as Muslims, Jews and others have.

So you see here is a Man who had not recieved Christ into His heart but prayed to the God of Abraham and God heard His prayers. So according to Scripture God can here the prayers of those who have not yet accepted Christ who are praying to Him as YHWH only.

But with that being said no man can come to the Father but thru the Son, You can recodnize the Father all you want but without the Son it is all for not. You can not enter into a blessed Eternity with out knowing the Son Jesus christ as your Savior.


I think it is like this Say God is in a gated community. People can shout and pray to God thru the gate and according to Scripture God can hear them. But inorder to get inside the gated community the Son is at the gate and grants passage to the Father, so althou they can shout and pray to the father they can not get to him without going thru the Son at the Gate.

People can pray and worship God the father with out recognizing the Son Jesus Christ as the book of Acts shows us. But you can not enter into a relationship with God without going thru His Son Jesus Christ so all of the shouting and praying will get you nowhere unless you accept the Son than you will be wit the Father.