The Israel of God

[OldRegular]

Following are continuing remarks by reformed dispensationalist, William E. Cox.
{From: http://www.neve-family.com/books/jews/Israel&TheChurch.html}

ISRAEL and THE CHURCH

by William E. Cox

Many people confuse the real issue between dispensationalists and the majority of Christian Bible exegetes. The real issue is well stated by Dr. George E. Ladd: "We must first clarify the nature of dispensational theology. The heart of the system is not seven dispensations nor a pretribulation rapture of the Church. It is the notion that God has two people, Israel and the Church, and two programs -- a theocratic program for Israel and a redemptive program for the Church. Israel is a national people with material blessings and an earthly destiny; the Church is a universal people with spiritual blessings and a heavenly destiny." (Christianity Today, October 12, 1959).

Dr. Ladd's statement is substantiated by this statement from the pen of the late Dr. L. W. Chafer, who was a leader in the dispensational movement in this country. "The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes; one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved, which is Judaism; while the other is related tol heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity" (Dispensationalism, p. 107).

Here, then, is the crux of the argument concerning Israel and the church. The paramount aim of the dispensationalist is to keep these alleged two groups separate. This accounts for their alleged postponements, gaps, and parentheses in God's program. This is why they will turn heaven and earth upside down in order to win one convert to their school of thought. And why they make this one belief a test of Christian fellowship. This is why dispensationalists are accused of taking glory which ought to go to Christ, and giving that glory to the non-believing nation of Israel. This writer believes they are guilty of this charge.

Jesus taught, in John 10:16, that there was one fold and one shepherd. Paul, the great theologian, certainly knew nothing of God's having two bodies. Let Paul speak: "For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition, having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; and might reconcile them both in one body unto God through the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph. 22:14-16)

Paul says here that God took two men (peoples) and created one man (people) from these two. Nor does the apostle teach that God had two peoples even before this. Rather, he teaches that God took Israel (who were his people) and added the Gentiles to them -- grafted the Gentiles, who up to that time had not been God's people -- into the same olive tree. The prophet Hosea had predicted that those who were not God's people should be called his people. This prophecy was fulfilled when the Gentiles were grafted as a wild shoot into the original olive tree of God (Israel).

Just what difference does it make whether one believes God has two peoples rather than one? Many have asked if this is not a minute theological point. The importance of this premise grows in magnitude as one studies the dispensational ramifications growing out of it. The New Testament teaches us that the church is the very apex in Christ's redemptive work and that Calvary was its purchase price. An example of this teaching is Ephesians 1:22,23: "And he put all things in subjection under his feet, and gave him to be head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all." Whereas the Bible calls the church the very body of Christ and the very fullness of God, the dispensationalist teaches that the church is doomed to failure, that it is a temporary instrument, and that national Israel will have a far greater ministry, following the removal of the Holy Spirit, than the church will have under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Is this a minor point?

Whereas our Lord himself taught that he carried out the complete will of God the Father, during his earthly ministry, the dispensationalist theology has it that Jesus fully expected to establish the counterpart of David's earthly kingdom (the millennium); that he thought he was going to establish just such a millennium; but that the non-believing part of national Israel frustrated his plans by refusing to accept his offer of himself as an earthly king along with an earthly kingdom. They teach that if the Jews had accepted Christ, the cross would not have been necessary. Is this point important in the light of such scriptures as the following?

"Jesus therefore perceiving that they were about to come and take him by force, to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain alone" (John 6:15).

Now is my soul troubled: and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour. But for this cause came I unto this hour" (John 12:27).

"... Christ: who was foreknown [foreordainted] indeed before the foundation of the world, but was manifested at the end of the times for your sake" (I Peter 1:19; 20)

"But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth his Son ..."​

Many more passages of Scripture could be brought to bear on this subject. These, however, should suffice to show that the events of the first advent were not accidents of chance. They show too that the cross was no afterthought in God's plan of redemption.

This teaching about Israel and the church leads much deeper into theology. However, it is not within the scope of this book to deal in further details with this point. The reader will find much helpful information in An Examination of Dispensationalism.

Oswald T. Allis (Prophecy and the Church, p. vi of the Preface) has given a concise distinction between dispensational teaching concerning the church, as opposed to the views of the great majority of Christians: "According to one view, the Church is the fulfillment of prophecy; according to the other, it interrupts that fulfillment. According to one view the Church age is the 'day of salvation'; according to the other view the Church age is only an episode, even if a very important one, in that day of salvation; and the salvation of Israel and of 'the enormous majority of mankind' will follow the removal of the Church."

 

[kyredneck]

He gets it from dispensational error, invented by John Nelson Darby! Never mind what Scripture tells us in Ephesians 2!

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=94639

He denies being a dispy and claims to be a 'covenaptist', I guess meaning he considers himself holding to covenant theology yet in every whit he espouses classic dispy theology.

Good OP on "The Wall That Jesus Christ Broke Down; Rebuilt?"

Yeshua1:
"Both Jews and gentiles have been made part of the same flock of God now by Crtoss of Christ, but that does not mean that God will not turn back to dealing with national israel after the Churge Age is done with!"

"After the Church Age" = the 'parenthesis Church'.

 

[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
....Christ taught there would be One Fold. But not until the Eternal State do we see this completely fulfilled. .

Not. Where do you get this stuff? The one fold is NOW, not somewhere off in the far distant future. There is NO DISTINCTION, NOW, not later.

14 For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; Eph 2

And the Spirit bade me go with them, making no distinction...Acts 11:12

and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Acts 15:9

even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; Ro 3:22

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: Ro 9:12

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: Ro 10:12

where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Christ is all, and in all. Col 3:11

There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28

For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13

15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Gal 6

I get it from the Lord:


John 10:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.


Until the Eternal State the saved of all history will not be united. Even your Catholic brother seems to understand this:

The Israel of God is the total number of redeemed throughout time!

But let's put my statement back into it's context:

Originally Posted by OldRegular
The Israel of God is the total number of redeemed throughout time! That is consistent with the Southern Baptist Faith and Message adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention in Atlanta, Georgia on June 14, 2000, which states:

This statement is similar to the Generation Dispute... It looks forward to those it applies to. Now if you can find them saying the church in the wilderness was the Body of Christ, please share that.

I can agree with this as it is stated as Christ taught there would be One Fold. But not until the Eternal State do we see this completely fulfilled.

At this time in history we have yet to see the redeemed that will be saved in the future saved. When the Eternal State begins the People of God will finally be gathered together, we will be One Fold with One Shepherd.

Not two peoples (Israel and the Church).

Right now the Lord is still gathering His Own.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

He denies being a dispy and claims to be a 'covenaptist', I guess meaning he considers himself holding to covenant theology yet in every whit he espouses classic dispy theology.

Good OP on "The Wall That Jesus Christ Broke Down; Rebuilt?"

Yeshua1:
"Both Jews and gentiles have been made part of the same flock of God now by Crtoss of Christ, but that does not mean that God will not turn back to dealing with national israel after the Churge Age is done with!"

"After the Church Age" = the 'parenthesis Church'.

It was a joke, lol.

"Covenaptist" simply speaks of the fact that I embrace the teachings of the Covenants and place them in their proper perspective, as opposed to associating with groups that deny certain truths because it doesn't fit the Theology System they adopted.

I am a Baptist, proud of it, and glad I was not thrown into the theological maelstrom of certain theology systems, whose doctrine is usually traced back to the Catholic Church, though they deny it. I am glad of what kind of Baptist I am, because the Baptists I have associated have held doctrine which, unlike certain Baptists, can be supported from the Word of God, and do not rely on Catholic teachings which their group was not able to divorce themselves from.

Like loss of salvation which has as the only possible recourse...salvation by works.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Following are continuing remarks by reformed dispensationalist, William E. Cox.
{From: http://www.neve-family.com/books/jews/Israel&TheChurch.html}

ISRAEL and THE CHURCH

by William E. Cox

Just to touch on the "heart of the matter and the continuous charge against me that I am a Dispensationalist:

Here, then, is the crux of the argument concerning Israel and the church. The paramount aim of the dispensationalist is to keep these alleged two groups separate. This accounts for their alleged postponements, gaps, and parentheses in God's program. This is why they will turn heaven and earth upside down in order to win one convert to their school of thought. And why they make this one belief a test of Christian fellowship. This is why dispensationalists are accused of taking glory which ought to go to Christ, and giving that glory to the non-believing nation of Israel. This writer believes they are guilty of this charge.

Quote me saying that Israel and the Church, in Christ, are two separate groups. I do not hold to that view, nor do I care that there are Dispensationalists that do.

What I do teach consistently is that Israel has not ceased to be Israel. At this time those of Israel are lost and in need of Christ, which will not happen on a National basis until the Millennial Kingdom, when only those of Israel who are born again enter into the Kingdom, thus fulfilling...


Romans 11:25-26

King James Version (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


Paul acknowledges the difference between Israel and Gentiles here in a prophetic tense.

Why wouldn't we? lol

Go and learn what that meaneth.





God bless.

 

[kyredneck]

....Until the Eternal State the saved of all history will not be united.

I now get where you get 'this stuff', it's strictly your imagination. Is there something about 'he is our peace, who made both one' and, 'one Spirit, one body, whether Jews or Greeks, one Spirit' that you don't understand?

 

[Darrell C]

I now get where you get 'this stuff', it's strictly your imagination. Is there something about 'he is our peace, who made both one' and, 'one Spirit, one body, whether Jews or Greeks, one Spirit' that you don't understand?

What I don't understand is your continuous attempt to make unbelievers...believers.

Is there something about 'he is our peace, who made both one' and, 'one Spirit, one body, whether Jews or Greeks, one Spirit' that you don't understand?

This applies only to those already saved.


God bless.

 

[kyredneck]

What I don't understand is your continuous attempt to make unbelievers...believers.

What I don't understand is why you won't accept that His children can fall into the sin of unbelief, or that Christ's atonement does not cover the sin of unbelief. Are there other sins that Christ did not atone for, or is that the only one?

This applies only to those already saved.

So? What is it in your imagination that moots the fact that there is NOW no distinction between the two? There is no longer TWO. There is only ONE.

 

[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
What I don't understand is your continuous attempt to make unbelievers...believers.

What I don't understand is why you won't accept that His children can fall into the sin of unbelief, or that Christ's atonement does not cover the sin of unbelief.

Now you're restructuring the issue.

I do believe believers can fall into unbelief and sin, but loss of salvation is not the punishment, and the texts the L.O.S.T. use speak of eternal damnation.

Believers who sin run the risk of chastisement, illness, and even death.

The penalty for sin has always been and always will be death. This was true for the Old Testament Saint, it is true for the New Testament Saint.

But the death of believers does not equate to eternal death. Moses and Aaron died physically for their sin but that does not mean they died eternally.

But that is not the context of any passage you have presented...and you know it.

You are trying to teach that believers can go into eternal punishment and that is false doctrine unsupported by any Bible passage or teaching.

This applies only to those already saved.

So? What is it in your imagination that moots the fact that there is NOW no distinction between the two? There is no longer TWO. There is only ONE.

So?

That's the point?

You cannot see you are in error from Paul's statement?


Romans 11:25-26

King James Version (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


He isn't saying that all Jewish believers will be saved. Have you even read chs.9-11?


Romans 9

King James Version (KJV)


1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


Doesn't seem Paul writes Israel off.

And you say I have an imagination? lol

Show how Paul denies National Israel? He doesn't say his brethren speaking of Christians.

And if you take that in consideration that will help you better understand the Book of Hebrews, which you have used to teach loss of salvation, not...

...judgment on sinning believers.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

What I don't understand is why you won't accept that His children can fall into the sin of unbelief, or that Christ's atonement does not cover the sin of unbelief. Are there other sins that Christ did not atone for, or is that the only one?



So? What is it in your imagination that moots the fact that there is NOW no distinction between the two? There is no longer TWO. There is only ONE.

I would also ask you to comment on this...


Romans 9

King James Version (KJV)


1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


And show how Paul is speaking past tense.

Israel will receive, on a National basis, the promises of God, thus shall all Israel be saved, because those who reject Christ in the Tribulation will be put to death.


God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

I would also ask you to comment on this...


Romans 9

King James Version (KJV)


1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


And show how Paul is speaking past tense.

Israel will receive, on a National basis, the promises of God, thus shall all Israel be saved, because those who reject Christ in the Tribulation will be put to death.


God bless.

I said earlier that Darbyites will twist any Scripture in an attempt to justify the false teaching of Darby and his acolytes! Consider what Paul is really saying about Israel:

Romans 9:1-16
1. I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2. That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4. Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5. Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12. It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

And then consider who Paul called the true Israel:

Romans 11:1-7
1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3. Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

 

[OldRegular]

Until the Eternal State the saved of all history will not be united.

That is proven false by the very Scripture you posted!

John 10:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

There is one fold now, the Church. Your pope Darby and his acolytes, or should I say his "teaching magisterium", invented the "parenthesis" Church to support his new revelation of a future Jewish dispensation. His doctrine of the "parenthesis" Church, as an "interruption" in Gods program for national or ethnic Israel, is as blasphemous as much of what the Church of Rome teaches.

I have posted elsewhere Charles Spurgeon's remarks concerning Darby's heretical view of the atonement! Perhaps he was striving for the same position among the Plymouth Brethern and dispensationalism that Mary has among the Roman Catholics.

 

[DHK]

That is proven false by the very Scripture you posted!



There is one fold now, the Church. Your pope Darby and his acolytes, or should I say his "teaching magisterium", invented the "parenthesis" Church to support his new revelation of a future Jewish dispensation. His doctrine of the "parenthesis" Church, as an "interruption" in Gods program for national or ethnic Israel, is as blasphemous as much of what the Church of Rome teaches.

I have posted elsewhere Charles Spurgeon's remarks concerning Darby's heretical view of the atonement! Perhaps he was striving for the same position among the Plymouth Brethern and dispensationalism that Mary has among the Roman Catholics.

At least answer respectfully. Do you know anyone person on the board who claims to be a follower of Darby? Seriously?

 

[Darrell C]

I said earlier that Darbyites will twist any Scripture in an attempt to justify the false teaching of Darby and his acolytes! Consider what Paul is really saying about Israel:

Romans 9:1-16
1. I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2. That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4. Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5. Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12. It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

And then consider who Paul called the true Israel:

Romans 11:1-7
1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3. Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

That you cannot understand the passages is surely attributed to the hatred which blinds you.

Here is the post again:


Originally Posted by Darrell C
I would also ask you to comment on this...


Romans 9

King James Version (KJV)


1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


And show how Paul is speaking past tense.

Israel will receive, on a National basis, the promises of God, thus shall all Israel be saved, because those who reject Christ in the Tribulation will be put to death.


Can you ever just once actually address a post?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
Until the Eternal State the saved of all history will not be united.

That is proven false by the very Scripture you posted!

How would you know. You always ignore the Scripture provided.

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
John 10:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

There is one fold now, the Church.

You completely ignored my point. Here it is again:

Originally Posted by OldRegular View Post
Following are continuing remarks by reformed dispensationalist, William E. Cox.
{From: http://www.neve-family.com/books/jews/Israel&TheChurch.html}

ISRAEL and THE CHURCH

by William E. Cox

Just to touch on the "heart of the matter and the continuous charge against me that I am a Dispensationalist:



Quote:
Here, then, is the crux of the argument concerning Israel and the church. The paramount aim of the dispensationalist is to keep these alleged two groups separate. This accounts for their alleged postponements, gaps, and parentheses in God's program. This is why they will turn heaven and earth upside down in order to win one convert to their school of thought. And why they make this one belief a test of Christian fellowship. This is why dispensationalists are accused of taking glory which ought to go to Christ, and giving that glory to the non-believing nation of Israel. This writer believes they are guilty of this charge.


Quote me saying that Israel and the Church, in Christ, are two separate groups. I do not hold to that view, nor do I care that there are Dispensationalists that do.

What I do teach consistently is that Israel has not ceased to be Israel. At this time those of Israel are lost and in need of Christ, which will not happen on a National basis until the Millennial Kingdom, when only those of Israel who are born again enter into the Kingdom, thus fulfilling...


Romans 11:25-26

King James Version (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


Paul acknowledges the difference between Israel and Gentiles here in a prophetic tense.

Why wouldn't we? lol

Go and learn what that meaneth.





God bless.

And I'll pause there for you to show that you can actually address the points in a post.

Go for it.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Your pope Darby and his acolytes, or should I say his "teaching magisterium", invented the "parenthesis" Church to support his new revelation of a future Jewish dispensation.

Every point of doctrine is taken from and supported by Scripture.

You are arguing something that has nothing to do with me or my posts.

His doctrine of the "parenthesis" Church, as an "interruption" in Gods program for national or ethnic Israel, is as blasphemous as much of what the Church of Rome teaches.

You would know, wouldn't you, seeing your doctrine can be traced only to Catholicism.

It sure doesn't come from first century teachings.

I have posted elsewhere Charles Spurgeon's remarks concerning Darby's heretical view of the atonement!

Yes, we are all aware of your habit of spamming threads.

Perhaps he was striving for the same position among the Plymouth Brethern and dispensationalism that Mary has among the Roman Catholics.

You tell me.

It is the Pope that has influenced you in ignoring the Word of God and teaching spectacular fantasies that negate what the Word of God states and impose on the text the meaning you want.

How very popish of you.

Speaking of being popish, your Pope has also convinced you that there is a need to keep people from discussing the Word of God.

Doesn't that bother you?

No of course it doesn't, because you are not even aware of what you are doing.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

At least answer respectfully. Do you know anyone person on the board who claims to be a follower of Darby? Seriously?

Why is it that his constant trolling, spamming, disruption, and slander of other members is tolerated?


God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

At least answer respectfully. Do you know anyone person on the board who claims to be a follower of Darby? Seriously?

I have posted numerous times the writings of dispensational scholar Dr. Thomas Ice that John Nelson Darby is the father of pre-trib-dispensationalism. Whether you agree or not he carries that title! Following is another writing of Ice I just located:

John Nelson Darby and The Pre-Trib Rapture
Dr. Thomas Ice


It has often been said of John Nelson Darby (1800–1882) that he is the most famous person most people have never heard about. Said another way, he is the most influential Christian leader that many know nothing about. Darby is rightly considered the father of modern dispensationalism and pretribulationism. He was one of the founders and the most influential personalities of the Brethren movement. Darby is one of the top five most voluminous writers in the history of all Christianity and personally founded around the world about 1,500 local assemblies or Churches. He translated the entire Bible into three languages (English, French and German) and the New Testament into five languages (Dutch and Italian). Darby is certainly one of the most important Christian leaders since the Reformation.

http://pre-trib.org/articles/view/john-nelson-darby-and-the-pre-trib-rapture

 

[DHK]

I have posted numerous times the writings of dispensational scholar Dr. Thomas Ice that John Nelson Darby is the father of pre-trib-dispensationalism. Whether you agree or not he carries that title! Following is another writing of Ice I just located:

And whether you like it or not, we don't believe the same as he does, don't have the same doctrine, haven't read his books etc.

For a parallel we don't call you an Augustinian, which technically you are because of your beliefs in Calvinism.
However he believed in infant baptism, purgatory, adhered to the precepts of his mother church, of which the RCC considers him one of the fathers. So whether you like it or not you are an Augustinian. Deny it all you like you are an Augustinian. Those are your beliefs. They stem from him. You have been in cahoots with Catholicism more than with a Baptist heritage of which you boast.

 

[OldRegular]

Romans 11:25-26

King James Version (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

as it is written, The Deliverer came out of Sion 2000 years ago. His name was Jesus Christ. The Jews had HIM crucified by the Romans!