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The Jehovah’s Witnesses Teach Jesus is Mighty God
- Thread starter SavedByGrace
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Heresy is unbiblical. I agree. But unbiblical is not heresy.
The word "heresy" is used to describe doctrine that is in opposition to orthodox Christianity.
For example, denying the Trinity is heresy.
But the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement, to include Limited Atonement which grew out of the theory, is within orthodox Christianity.
Competing theories of Atonement are also within orthodox Christianity, and these exclude limited atonement by nature.
Again, to illustrate, Christus Victor and Penal Substitution Theory are competing doctrines. They both can be wrong, but both cannot be true. BUT both are within orthodox Christianity (neither are heresies).
At one time Penal Substitution Theory would have been considered a heresy because of how it views the Trinity and how it views sin and punishment (the scope of Atonement debate was within this framework). But today it is within orthodoxy.
So, consider this a fair warning as I will summerize the BB policy about calling other people's views "heresy" - don't do it.
37818
Well-Known Member
The 19th century Arminian Adam Clarke wrote,
"
Jude 1:9
Verse 9. Yet Michael the archangel] . . .
. . . Let it be observed that the word archangel is never found in the plural number in the sacred writings. There can be properly only one archangel, one chief or head of all the angelic host. Nor is the word devil, as applied to the great enemy of mankind, ever found in the plural; there can be but one monarch of all fallen spirits. Michael is this archangel, and head of all the angelic orders; the devil, great dragon, or Satan, is head of all the diabolic orders. When these two hosts are opposed to each other they are said to act under these two chiefs, as leaders; hence in Re 12:7, it is said: MICHAEL and his angels fought against the DRAGON and his angels. The word Michael מיכאל, seems to be compounded of מי mi, who, כ ke, like, and אל El, God; he who is like God; hence by this personage, in the Apocalypse, many understand the Lord Jesus. . . ."
"
Jude 1:9
Verse 9. Yet Michael the archangel] . . .
. . . Let it be observed that the word archangel is never found in the plural number in the sacred writings. There can be properly only one archangel, one chief or head of all the angelic host. Nor is the word devil, as applied to the great enemy of mankind, ever found in the plural; there can be but one monarch of all fallen spirits. Michael is this archangel, and head of all the angelic orders; the devil, great dragon, or Satan, is head of all the diabolic orders. When these two hosts are opposed to each other they are said to act under these two chiefs, as leaders; hence in Re 12:7, it is said: MICHAEL and his angels fought against the DRAGON and his angels. The word Michael מיכאל, seems to be compounded of מי mi, who, כ ke, like, and אל El, God; he who is like God; hence by this personage, in the Apocalypse, many understand the Lord Jesus. . . ."
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
37818
Well-Known Member
Is this what you understand from Adam Clarke to teach?Jesus Christ Created Michael
John Gill wrote ". . . not a created angel, . . ."
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
That is what I understand from what the Bible teaches
37818
Well-Known Member
The two Scriptures JW's use to claim Jesus Christ was God's first creation are Colossians 1:15 and Revelation 3:14. Both verses do refer to Jesus Christ being a part of His creation, by way of His incarnation and bodily resurrection, per Colossians 1:18 and Revelation 1:5.
Isaiah 43
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord,
and my servant whom I have chosen:
that ye may know and believe me,
and understand that I am he:
before me there was no God formed,
neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord;
and beside me there is no saviour.
Isaiah 44
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel,
and his redeemer the Lord of hosts;
I am the first, and I am the last;
and beside me there is no God.
8b ye are even my witnesses.
Is there a God beside me?
yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isaiah 45
5 I am the Lord, and there is none else,
there is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
that there is none beside me.
I am the Lord, and there is none else.
19d I declare things that are right.
20 Assemble yourselves and come;
draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations:
they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image,
and pray unto a god that cannot save.
21 Tell ye, and bring them near;
yea, let them take counsel together:
who hath declared this from ancient time?
who hath told it from that time?
have not I the Lord?
and there is no God else beside me;
a just God and a Saviour;
there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth:
for I am God,
and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself,
the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return,
That unto me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.
Isaiah 46
5 To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal,
and compare me, that we may be like?
6 They lavish gold out of the bag,
and weigh silver in the balance,
and hire a goldsmith; and he maketh it a god:
they fall down, yea, they worship.
7 They bear him upon the shoulder,
they carry him, and set him in his place, and he standeth;
from his place shall he not remove:
yea, one shall cry unto him, yet can he not answer,
nor save him out of his trouble.
8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men:
bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors.
9 Remember the former things of old:
for I am God, and there is none else;
I am God, and there is none like me,
10 declaring the end from the beginning,
and from ancient times the things that are not yet done,
saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.
The Holy Bible declares the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.
There is one God, in three Persons. Not two gods, not three gods. That would be polytheism.
37818
Well-Known Member
What is the simple proof that Michael is not actually like God by being the Angel of Jehovah per Zachariah 3:2, And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; . . . . Like Jude 1:9, said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Nice try Jehovah’s Witness – dressing as a cop and banging on my door.
I’m hip to your tricks... Brother Glen
I’m hip to your tricks... Brother Glen
The interpretation above is not a surprise, he that apears speaking in Genesis 3:1 is the same who spread the above interpretation through them which believe in him, believe in the man of sin, the son of perdition-the tree of good and evil -the fig tree- , 2Thes.2:2-3 and 9-12, combined with Revelation 12:9.
Be careful
1 Timothy 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; (apostasies)
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
2 Tim. 3:1 - This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
Be careful
1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel (Michael-> he comes first-Daniel 12:1, after comes JESUS in His return) and with the trump of GOD(Revelation 11:15-16): and the dead in Christ shall rise first-Daniel 12:2:
Daniel 12:3 -
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars (stars?Rev. 1:20) for ever and ever.
Be careful
- Revelation 12:4 - The red Dragon through his TAIL (TAIL? Isaiah 9:15-16) drew the third part of the stars of heaven(stars of heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8. Take a look):, and (the red Dragon) did cast them to the earth: (Terrible. Terrible, very terrible)
Revelation 12:9-12
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the Kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our GOD day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the Word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them(Ephesians 1:3-8). Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen
37818
Well-Known Member
Yes, in Jude 1:9 Michael rebucked Satan -->Michael the archangel, when contending with the Devil he disputed about the body of Moses,...(in that time Satan still had not as he has now , IN THIS CURRENT TIME, TIME OF APOCALYPSE, 7 heads, and 10 horns, and a TAIL-Revelation 12:3-4 , in my view Israel was the body of Moses, as the Church today is the body of our Lord JESUS Christ.
And now, in this time of Apocalypse, Satan appears having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads, and a TAIL -Revelation 12:3-4 - , now Michael fights against the current body of Satan-Revelation 12:7-13, and Satan will be cast down into the bottomless pit-Revelation 20:1-4.
Revelation 11:15-18
11 ... The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Get ready of the battle
And now, in this time of Apocalypse, Satan appears having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads, and a TAIL -Revelation 12:3-4 - , now Michael fights against the current body of Satan-Revelation 12:7-13, and Satan will be cast down into the bottomless pit-Revelation 20:1-4.
Revelation 11:15-18
11 ... The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Get ready of the battle
37818
Well-Known Member
You make no sense.
37818
Well-Known Member
Irrelevant to what I was discussing.
GOD never said His name is Jehovah.
What matters and prevails is the everlasting Word of GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, understand? And He never said His name is Jehovah, The original Hebrew says it not, this name was surreptitiously added in the translations of Scriptures by the Devil, even in the current translations of Hebrew Bible, the Torah. By the way, not only the satanic name/nickname Jehovah, but also other devilish NICKNAMES like YHWH, Yahweh, Yehovah,Elohim, Adonai, HaShem, Yahusha, YEHshia, Jehovah, YEHvah.
Well, my GOD is a devouring / consuming fire, understand? As you know, Satan was/is the more subtil than any Beast of the field(the world is the field) which the Lord GOD had made. Satan is the tree of good and evil -the figtree- , so when Satan said unto Adam and Eve they were naked, they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons, indeed they put on the clothes that the Devil gave them. This satanic event occurred around 6000 years ago. Terrible, very terrible.
I understand you and probably others are astonished with these revelations, but what matters and prevails is the righteous Judgment of GOD- Romans 2-, isn't it?
Oh no, I'm not against the true GOD as you may think here, quite the opposite, I know Him and His Son JESUS, my older brother. The true believers know that whosoever is born of GOD sins not against Him. He that is begotten of GOD keeps himself, and the Wicked one touches him not.
1John 5:19-20
19 And we know that we are of GOD, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of GOD is come,and has given us an understanding,that we may know Him that is true,and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ.This is the true GOD and eternal life(not the satanic Jehovah, YHWH, Yahweh, Yehovah,Elohim, Adonai, HaShem, Yahusha, YEHshia, YEHvah)
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