The KJV and The Deity of Jesus Christ

[SavedByGrace]

Eh, yeah right. I have more than once referred to the KJB's rendering of Titus 2:13 to prove that Jesus and God are one...that's precisely why that verse is changed in so many versions.

You need to lay off that obsession with proving the KJB wrong, because you thereby keep unwittingly confessing its truth.

yet another remark based on zero evidence! you need to study the Bible more and not your theology on one version!

 

[Yeshua1]

Eh, yeah right. I have more than once referred to the KJB's rendering of Titus 2:13 to prove that Jesus and God are one...that's precisely why that verse is changed in so many versions.

You need to lay off that obsession with proving the KJB wrong, because you thereby keep unwittingly confessing its truth.

So the perfection of the Kjv relies upon having known mistakes in it!

 

[George Antonios]

So the perfection of the Kjv relies upon having known mistakes in it!

Still no verse that you provide to prove only the originals were inspired. Another day. Ho hum.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Do some oppose the same measures and principles being applied to 2 Peter 1:1 as would be applied to 2 Peter 1:11?

yeah, those who are blinded by the KJVO thing!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Still no verse that you provide to prove only the originals were inspired. Another day. Ho hum.

and where is your verse to show that your beloved KJV is inspired? own goal!

 

[Logos1560]

Still no verse that you provide to prove only the originals were inspired.

Because of your human, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning, you may close your eyes to the clear scriptural teaching that inspiration is a term for the process or way by which God gave the Scriptures to the prophets and apostles or the process by which the words proceeded from the mouth of God to the prophets and apostles.

You have provided no verse that teaches that the process of inspiration continued after the completion of the New Testament.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Still no verse that you provide to prove only the originals were inspired. Another day. Ho hum.

this might enlighten you, but there again, it might not! The KJV is A Revision

 

[Yeshua1]

the way both Titus 2:13, and 2 Peter 1:1 reads in the original 1611 KJV, not those revised, there can be no duout to those who understand English grammar, that TWO Persons are intended! I have shown images from the original works, which is all that really matters.

Amazing how the KJVO will just blindly assert perfection, while at same time we have Easter in Acts, 2 Persons here, calling the Holy Spirit an it etc!

 

[Dave G]

You say that you "trust the Lord for my understanding of His words, not men", so who do you think made the Bible versions that we have today?

To me, the two are not connected.
Men making translations and God preserving His words and using men to translate them into other languages, are two entirely different subjects.
But to answer those two subjects:

I hold that some men have been used of God to give His people His words in their own language, and many men ( especially nowadays) have been used by Satan, who opposes God and His people on all fronts.

For example,
The evidence of my adversary's involvement in these last days is manyfold, in my opinion, but here are two examples of it:

1) The translation work into English ( especially in America ) continues as if there is no end in sight.
I'm convinced that if it were God's work, He would have given it in one standard, not a continuous and confusing, never-ending non-standard that results in over $400 million a year in Bible sales reaped by publishing houses that don't seem to be interested in the work ever reaching a standard.

2) There is a constant stream of people on forums who increasingly point to the "errors" in the AV and the underlying Received Text, as if that should settle it.
In other words, there is a decidedly concerted effort on the part of both worldly scholars and now many of those within the churches, who not only outright attack the Bible that many hold dear, but live any old way they wish and do not genuinely seek to obey the Lord...

For example,
When corrected by Scripture regarding their conduct, they seem to simply shrug it off as if it doesn't apply to them and never did.

Objectively, that concerted effort only seeks to tear down a faithful and accurate translation of His word that has been a standard for most of its history, and in reality does not seek to improve upon it.

Therefore, I reason that if all the recent activity on the part of men these past 150 years were genuinely about giving God's perfect words to God's English-speaking people, then that standard would have been established long before now.
With an average of one new English translation every 5 years, my question is and will always remain:
"Are we there yet?"

The answer is, "No".

But then I look at the AV, and I've found my answer...
It happened 400 years ago, and it was edited for spelling and other minor things a few times after that.

 

[Yeshua1]

this might enlighten you, but there again, it might not! The KJV is A Revision

Also hard to claim no inspiration given in light of John 16:12-13!

 

[Dave G]

Do you believe that the KJV is the only Bible version that God has blessed and uses?

No.
I also believe that He used the Geneva, Great, Matthew's, Bishop's and others that came before it, and that He can and does use anything, even today, where His actual words are contained.

Did you know that that Jehovahs Witnesses have been saved reading their own version because in the greater majority of places it is the Word of God

I've never said that the newer translations in English do not contain the words of God.

My position is that most of them do not contain all of God's precious words in my own language.

 

[Yeshua1]

To me, the two are not connected.
Men making translations and God preserving His words and using men to translate them into other langauges, are two entirely different subjects.

I hold that some men have been used of God to give His people His words in their own language, and that Satan opposes God and His people on all fronts.

For example,
The evidence of my adversary's involvement in these last days is twofold, in my opinion:

1) The translation work ( especially in America and throughout the English-speaking world ) continues as if there is no end in sight.
If it were God's work, He would have given it in one standard, not a continuous and confusing never-ending non-standard that results in over $400 million a year in Bible sales reaped by publishing houses that don't seem to be interested in the work ever reaching a standard.

2) There is a constant stream of people on forums who increasingly point to the "errors" in the AV and the underlying Received Text, as if that should settle it.
In other words, there is a decidedly concerted effort on the part of both worldly scholars and now many of those within the churches, who not only outright attack the Bible that many hold dear, but live any old way they wish and do not genuinely seek to obey the Lord.

Objectively, that concerted effort only seeks to tear down a faithful and accurate translation of His word, not to improve upon it.
I reason that if all the recent activity on the part of men these past 150 years were genuinely about giving God's perfect words to God's perfected people, then that standard would have been established long before now.

With an average of one new English translation every 5 years, my question is and will always remain:
"Are we there yet?"

The answer is, "No".

So the Lord only helped the 1611 translators, and let those on the Nas Esv Nkjv etc just do it by themselves?

 

[Yeshua1]

No.
I also believe that He used the Geneva, Great, Matthew's, Bishop's and others that came before it, and that He can and does use anything, even today, where His actual words are contained.

I've never said that the newer translations in English do not contain the words of God.

My position is that most of them do not contain all of God's precious words in my own language.

Neither does the Kjv contain all of the originals either!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Amazing how the KJVO will just blindly assert perfection, while at same time we have Easter in Acts, 2 Persons here, calling the Holy Spirit an it etc!

Indeed, very sad! I am finishing another study for here on just that, the KJV and the Holy Spirit.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I also believe that He used the Geneva, Great, Matthew's, Bishop's and others that came before it, and that He can and does use anything, even today, where His actual words are contained.

but not the NKJV, NASB, YLT, ESV?

 

[Dave G]

what you are saying is, that ONLY the KJV has got it 100% right in everything that it says, and ALL other faithful versions, like the YLT, NASB, NJKV, ESV, are wrong?

What I am stating is the same thing I've stated, all along, since I joined this forum:

There is nothing better in the English and print than the AV.
It reflects all of God's preserved words in both Greek and Hebrew, and any believer can hold it in his or her hands knowing that they have God's actual words in English.

This is a very weak and foolish position for anyone to take, as it is completely WRONG!

Respectfully, you have the right and privilege to agree or disagree with me and the information I post...

As for it being a weak and foolish position, I'll stand on it until the Lord takes me home.
In other words, you're not going to take my Bible away from me, "SavedByGrace", neither by open ridicule, nor in trying to persuade me intellectually.

 

[Dave G]

but not the NKJV, NASB, YLT, ESV?

Read post # 51 again.
I think you missed your answer.

 

[SavedByGrace]

the AV and the underlying Received Text

you are very much mistaken here. the KJV was completed in 1611. It was only in the Greek New Testament published by the Elzevirs in 1633, that they used in their preface, the words, "textum ... receptum". So the KJV could not have been based on the Received Text! The KJV is a rehash of earlier English versions, The KJV is A Revision

 

[SavedByGrace]

knowing that they have God's actual words in English

really? so there are NO errors of any sort in the KJV?

 

[Dave G]

So the Lord only helped the 1611 translators, and let those on the Nas Esv Nkjv etc just do it by themselves?

I see nothing in the past 150 years of translation effort, in the modern English versions, that makes me believe that the Lord had any hand in it.