The knowledge of good and evil.

[37818]

To Adam:
Genesis 2:16-17, ". . . And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

To Adam and Eve:
Genesis 3:2-3, ". . . We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."

It is this knowledge of good and evil which causes the sinful nature when decendants are merely conceived to have it, causing them to be spiritually dead from conception. But the Son of God being conceived fully man did not have this sinful nature because that knowledge of good and evil was of His divine nature as Creator (Genesis 3:22). This the irregular churches never understood.

 

[1689Dave]

To Adam:
Genesis 2:16-17, ". . . And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

To Adam and Eve:
Genesis 3:2-3, ". . . We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."

It is this knowledge of good and evil which causes the sinful nature when decendants are merely conceived to have it, causing them to be spiritually dead from conception. But the Son of God being conceived fully man did not have this sinful nature because that knowledge of good and evil was of His divine nature as Creator (Genesis 3:22). This the irregular churches never understood.

To paraphrase it, The Chalcedon Creed says Jesus is body, soul, and Spirit of God (being the Trinity). In contrast, we according to Paul are body, soul, and the human spirit.

 

[37818]

This the irregular churches never understood.

None of the Catholic creeds understand this.

 

[JonC]

How do we deal with Genesis 3:22?

The Lord God said, “Since man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil, he must not reach out, take from the tree of life, eat, and live forever.”

 

[37818]

How do we deal with Genesis 3:22?

The Lord God said, “Since man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil, he must not reach out, take from the tree of life, eat, and live forever.”

This is the key issue that in us causes us to have our sinful nature. What God did was prevent them from being like the Serpent forever.

 

[JonC]

This is the key issue that in us causes us to have our sinful nature. What God did was prevent them from being like the Serpent forever.

Why the "like us" part?

 

[37818]

Why the "like us" part?

The knowledge of good and evil was God's knowledge. Note the Serpent's argument to deceive Eve, Genesis 3:4-5, the lie followed by a truth.

 

[percho]

To Adam:
Genesis 2:16-17, ". . . And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

To Adam and Eve:
Genesis 3:2-3, ". . . We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."

It is this knowledge of good and evil which causes the sinful nature when decendants are merely conceived to have it, causing them to be spiritually dead from conception. But the Son of God being conceived fully man did not have this sinful nature because that knowledge of good and evil was of His divine nature as Creator (Genesis 3:22). This the irregular churches never understood.

I believe the key to understanding is to ask the question/questions.

And they are both of them naked, the man and his wife, and they are not ashamed of themselves. Gen 2:25

At that, very moment in time, was the devil already Satan the adversary, had the the devil who was a sinner from the beginning, (see 1 John 3;8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil,-) already been doing works which needed to be destroyed?

If the answer is yes, and I believe it is, then what needed to come to pass? What had God already foreordained to take place? How exactly was God going to destroy the devil and his works? Exactly how was the woman going to be the help meet for the man? Exactly how and through whom was the Son of God going to be manifested?

I believe the following is relative but am not exactly sure how relative.

for Adam was first formed, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman, having been deceived, into transgression came, and she shall be saved through the child-bearing, if they remain in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety. 1 Tim 2:13-15 YLT
So -- the way of an adulterous woman, She hath eaten and hath wiped her mouth, And hath said, 'I have not done iniquity.' Prov 30:20 YLT
because of this, even as through one man the sin did enter into the world, and through the sin the death; and thus to all men the death did pass through, for that all did sin; Rom 5:12 YLT

 

[37818]

I believe the key to understanding is to ask the question/questions.

And they are both of them naked, the man and his wife, and they are not ashamed of themselves. Gen 2:25

At that, very moment in time, was the devil already Satan the adversary, had the the devil who was a sinner from the beginning, (see 1 John 3;8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil,-) already been doing works which needed to be destroyed?

If the answer is yes, and I believe it is, then what needed to come to pass? What had God already foreordained to take place? How exactly was God going to destroy the devil and his works? Exactly how was the woman going to be the help meet for the man? Exactly how and through whom was the Son of God going to be manifested?

I believe the following is relative but am not exactly sure how relative.

for Adam was first formed, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman, having been deceived, into transgression came, and she shall be saved through the child-bearing, if they remain in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety. 1 Tim 2:13-15 YLT
So -- the way of an adulterous woman, She hath eaten and hath wiped her mouth, And hath said, 'I have not done iniquity.' Prov 30:20 YLT
because of this, even as through one man the sin did enter into the world, and through the sin the death; and thus to all men the death did pass through, for that all did sin; Rom 5:12 YLT

You do not understand. Genesis 3:22, God said, ". . . Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: . . ."

 

[percho]

You do not understand. Genesis 3:22, God said, ". . . Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: . . ."

What does it mean, to know good and evil?

We are what we eat. Why did God not want man, to eat of the knowledge?

Is to have knowledge of good and evil, to have free will to determine what is good and what is evil?


And they are both of them naked, the man and his wife, and they are not ashamed of themselves. Gen 2:25

At that, very moment in time, was the devil already Satan the adversary, had the the devil who was a sinner from the beginning, (see 1 John 3;8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil,-) already been doing works which needed to be destroyed?

what needed to come to pass? What had God already foreordained to take place? How exactly was God going to destroy the devil and his works? Exactly how was the woman going to be the help meet for the man? Exactly how and through whom was the Son of God going to be manifested?

What did all that transpired have to do with the devil, Satan?

 

[37818]

God made man good. The only change in man being good was the aquiring of God's knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 3:22.

 

[percho]

God made man good. The only change in man being good was the aquiring of God's knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 3:22.

I agree. Gen 1:27 And God created Man in his image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. V 31 And God seeth all that He hath done, and lo, very good; and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day the sixth.

From whence, of what, did he create man?
And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature. Gen 2:7
for the soul of the flesh is (Is it the breath of life (above) that is in the blood that makes of flesh, living soul?) in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul. Lev 17:11 Darby
for what the law was not able to do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, did condemn the sin in the flesh, Rom 8:3
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. Rom 7:14 ESV

In what manner did he create, make man?
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Was that very first man, before he brought sin into the world (kosmos) and death through sin flesh and blood? Would he even then need to be changed before he could inherit the kingdom of God?

Why, why did God create the man that way?

 

[37818]

We are what we eat. Why did God not want man, to eat of the knowledge?

It was not mere knowledge, but God's knowledge of good and evil which God said the day man eats of it would die death, Genesis 2:17. What has not been correctly understood is that knowledge of good and evil is man's sinful nature.

 

[37818]

What does it mean, to know good and evil?

To be able to decide for one's self what one is going to be right or wrong. Not needing to be told by another. To be a free moral agent.

 

[JonC]

The knowledge of good and evil was God's knowledge. Note the Serpent's argument to deceive Eve, Genesis 3:4-5, the lie followed by a truth.

But Scripture says man has become like Us, knowing good and evil.

Is "know" here cognitive or experiential....or both...or neither?

 

[37818]

But Scripture says man has become like Us, knowing good and evil.

Is "know" here cognitive or experiential....or both...or neither?

It is a question of interpretation. It caused a change for them from Genesis 2:25 to how they became in Genesis 3:7. Which can be understood as being first cognitive and as a result experiential.

It is my understanding the whole human race was affected by this. Our wearing of clothing is the evidence.

לָדַ֖עַת
Now this Hebrew word for "know" is used hundreds of times. But with the very same spelling and vowel marks is used only 7x. Since I do not read Hebrew. I do not know how relevant.

 

[JonC]

It is a question of interpretation. It caused a change for them from Genesis 2:25 to how they became in Genesis 3:7. Which can be understood as being first cognitive and as a result experiential.

It is my understanding the whole human race was affected by this. Our wearing of clothing is the evidence.

לָדַ֖עַת
Now this Hebrew word for "know" is used hundreds of times. But with the very same spelling and vowel marks is used only 7x. Since I do not read Hebrew. I do not know how relevant.

I was just wondering.

Another interpretation is that God knows good and evil based on His nature (to know good is to know evil), and man knows good and evil based on his nature (to know evil is to know good).

 

[37818]

I was just wondering.

Another interpretation is that God knows good and evil based on His nature (to know good is to know evil), and man knows good and evil based on his nature (to know evil is to know good).

Evil needs created finite good to exist. God is infinite good. The knowledge of good and evil originated with God, John 1:3.

 

[JonC]

Evil needs created finite good to exist. God is infinite good. The knowledge of good and evil originated with God, John 1:3.

I view it as God being the standard (the Good) by which all things are measured. Adam did not, in his transgression, glorify God (but God works all things for His good).

I do disagree that Adam's eyes being opened, knowing good and evil, denotes a change in human nature. Instead I view Adam as a representative of man (in the flesh) and his eyes being opened to the realization that he (his desires, man seeking the desires of the flesh) cannot please God.

 

[37818]

I do disagree that Adam's eyes being opened, knowing good and evil, denotes a change in human nature. Instead I view Adam as a representative of man (in the flesh) and his eyes being opened to the realization that he (his desires, man seeking the desires of the flesh) cannot please God.

So am I to understand that you think in Genesis 3;22, ". . . And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: . . ." means no actual change in mankind? Adam and Eve remain just the same as God made them?