"The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

[KenH]

"The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." - Revelation 13:8

"His Priestly office, through the virtue of his blood reaching backward to the foundation of the world, and therefore said to be the Lamb slain so early, ( Revelation 13:8 ) and instances there are of his intercession under the former dispensation, ( Zechariah 1:12 ,13, 3:1-4 ) the actual existence of Christ's human nature from eternity, was not necessary to his being a Mediator of the covenant; it was enough that he agreed in covenant, to be man in time; that this was known he would be, and was certain he should be; and accordingly he was, from the instant of the covenant making, reckoned and accounted, and bore the name of the God-man and Mediator, and acted as such. Some parts of his work did not require the actual existence of the human nature; he could draw near to God, as Jehovah's fellow, without it; he could treat with God about terms of peace, and promise to fulfill them, and covenant with God without it: it no more required the actual existence of his human nature, to covenant with his Father, about the reconciliation and redemption of man, than it required that the Father should assume such a nature to covenant with his Son about the same: there were other parts of Christ's work as Mediator, which required its actual existence; as obedience to the law, and suffering death, the penalty of it; but then, and not before, was it necessary for him to assume it, when the fullness of time was come agreed on, to obey and suffer."

- excerpt from John Gill's A Body of Doctrinal Divinity, in the chapter "Of Christ, the Mediator of the Covenant"



@Darrell C You asked me a question concerning Revelation 13:8 in the thread entitled, "A Perfect Righteousness" in post #72, "Are you arguing that Christ was slain from the foundation of the world in a literal sense?" I apologize for not responding earlier, but it slipped my mind.

The answer to your question is "No." In addition to the explanation above by John Gill, I would add something by J.C. Philpot in his "Through Baca's Vale" concerning a similar situation in Ephesians 2:6 "And made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

"But when he ascended up on high, all the election of grace ascended with him. He did not leave his members behind upon earth, but he took them all 'virtually' into
heaven. And this is a pledge that they will one day be with him in the realms of eternal bliss, because they have already ascended with him, as the members of his mystical body."

 

[Van]

Revelation 13:8 Modern Translations of CT and MT.

All those who live on the earth will worship it, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered. CSB

and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. ESV

And all those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name is not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered. LEB

All who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered. NASB

and all those who live on the earth will worship the beast, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb who was killed. NET

and all the inhabitants of the earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slaughtered. NRSV

All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been killed. WEB

 

[Darrell C]

"His Priestly office, through the virtue of his blood reaching backward to the foundation of the world, and therefore said to be the Lamb slain so early, ( Revelation 13:8 ) and instances there are of his intercession under the former dispensation, ( Zechariah 1:12 ,13, 3:1-4 ) the actual existence of Christ's human nature from eternity, was not necessary to his being a Mediator of the covenant; it was enough that he agreed in covenant, to be man in time; that this was known he would be, and was certain he should be; and accordingly he was, from the instant of the covenant making, reckoned and accounted, and bore the name of the God-man and Mediator, and acted as such.

Hi Ken, I apologize also for the late response. Busy, busy, busy, lol.

I'll have to disagree with John Gill on a number of points, and I'll try to make it brief.

First, it should be understood that until the Son of God actually took on the flesh of man, there was no "Jesus Christ." He assumed flesh on a number of occasions (i.e., the Garden, the Plains of Mamre, etc.), but it was not until He was born of Mary that He specifically became the fulfillment of the Prophecy concerning Christ.

Christ did not have "a human nature" before then.

It was not "enough that He agreed ... to be a man in time. It was necessary that He come in the physical body He took on and die in that body.

A few verses in consideration of my position"


Hebrews 1
King James Version
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:


Truly His Work was known to Him prior to performing it, but we see the necessity for Atonement itself in order for the Covenant to become valid. The New Covenant did not exist prior to the Work.


Hebrews 10:9
King James Version
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.


There was no Second Covenant until the First was taken away. Hebrews 10 makes it clear that was accomplished by His sacrifice of Himself.


Hebrews 10:16
King James Version
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;


When He was slain cannot be turned into a spiritualism teaching that His death happened prior to the world's creation.


Hebrews 9:12-15
King James Version
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Some parts of his work did not require the actual existence of the human nature; he could draw near to God, as Jehovah's fellow, without it; he could treat with God about terms of peace, and promise to fulfill them, and covenant with God without it: it no more required the actual existence of his human nature, to covenant with his Father, about the reconciliation and redemption of man,

In view, specifically, is when He was slain. Not about the Son's relationship to the Father. I think most would agree with the above, but it does not support a view that the Christ—Who is prophesied through the Old Testament as having not yet come (which is why it is viewed as prophecy)—was slain prior to Creation.

there were other parts of Christ's work as Mediator, which required its actual existence; as obedience to the law, and suffering death, the penalty of it; but then, and not before, was it necessary for him to assume it, when the fullness of time was come agreed on, to obey and suffer."

- excerpt from John Gill's A Body of Doctrinal Divinity, in the chapter "Of Christ, the Mediator of the Covenant"

There is no Work until Christ comes and fulfills the prophecy.


Galatians 4:4-6
King James Version
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


Prior to the Work, God had not sent His Son to redeem mankind. No man had yet received the adoption of sons and the indwelling of God in a context of eternal relationship. He did indwell men temporarily, often for the purpose of empowering prophets, priests, kings, and warriors, but we distinguish that indwelling as a coming upon, rather than the coming within of Regeneration.

He had to actually be slain in order for these things to come to pass. We can actually view His return to Heaven as necessary as well, because there is no regeneration apart from the indwelling of God Christ prophesied in John 14-16. The Spirit of Truth, another Comforter, had to be sent:


John 16:7
King James Version
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.


He had to be slain prior to His return that the Spirit of truth be sent.

@Darrell C You asked me a question concerning Revelation 13:8 in the thread entitled, "A Perfect Righteousness" in post #72, "Are you arguing that Christ was slain from the foundation of the world in a literal sense?" I apologize for not responding earlier, but it slipped my mind.

No worries, lol. I appreciate the post.

The answer to your question is "No." In addition to the explanation above by John Gill, I would add something by J.C. Philpot in his "Through Baca's Vale" concerning a similar situation in Ephesians 2:6 "And made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

"But when he ascended up on high, all the election of grace ascended with him. He did not leave his members behind upon earth, but he took them all 'virtually' into
heaven. And this is a pledge that they will one day be with him in the realms of eternal bliss, because they have already ascended with him, as the members of his mystical body."

Again, the primary issue would be when He was slain. I find John Gill's commentary erroneous. That the Cross was something God intended to perform and was known throughout Eternity is a given. But it was necessary that Christ should come in order for Atonement to be effectual for sinners, including Old Testament Saints, who died not having received the Promise foretold in Prophecy.

He had to die at the appointed time, rise again, and return to Heaven.

Thus, I hold to the position that Revelation 13:8 is referring to those who have not been written in the Lamb's book of Life, which I view to be distinct from the book of life all men are placed in when God brings them into existence. Moses asked to be blotted from the latter (Exodus 32:32), and David asked his enemies be (Psalms 69:28) blotted from "the book of the living" and not be written with the righteous. David's request is, in my view, pleading for their deaths, then denying them a place in the Lamb's book of life.

But that is another discussion, one we don't see very often, but very interesting.

Thanks for the response!