The LAST Trumpet In 1 Cor. 15:52?

[Ed Edwards]

Me4Him: //The promise to "send Elijah" was spiritually fulfilled in "John the Baptist", but the "Literal Elijah" is coming as one of the two witnesses during the trib, //

OldRegular: //One thing about you Me4Him. You are consistent, consistently wrong. Can you quote one passage of Scripture that supports your remark about John the Baptist.

)

While Bro Be4Him's staement is NOT in the Bible;
neither is it inconsistant with the Bible.
A couple of other ways of wording what Bro Me4Him said is:

John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah.
One of the two winesses will aslo come in the spirit of Elijah.

Elijah is the type for John The Baptist
and Elijah is the type for oneof the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
Me4Him: //The promise to "send Elijah" was spiritually fulfilled in "John the Baptist", but the "Literal Elijah" is coming as one of the two witnesses during the trib, //

OldRegular: //One thing about you Me4Him. You are consistent, consistently wrong. Can you quote one passage of Scripture that supports your remark about John the Baptist.

)

While Bro Be4Him's staement is NOT in the Bible;
neither is it inconsistant with the Bible.
A couple of other ways of wording what Bro Me4Him said is:

John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah.
One of the two winesses will aslo come in the spirit of Elijah.

Elijah is the type for John The Baptist
and Elijah is the type for oneof the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11.

Jesus Christ said:

Matthew 17:12[NKJV] But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.
Mark 9:13 [NKJV] But I say to you that Elijah has also come, and they did to him whatever they wished, as it is written of him.

I am afraid that I will have to take the words of Jesus Christ over that of you and me4Him.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Thank you for finding the scripture that
verifies my statment(s) and Me4Him's statement.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
Thank you for finding the scripture that
verifies my statment(s) and Me4Him's statement.

Bless your little pea pikin heart ED Ed the above Scripture don't say John the Baptist was a Type of Elijah they say He was Elijah.

 

[Ed Edwards]

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:

You should be studying Scripture. I believe all dispensationalists are asleep when it comes to Scripture!

 

[Mel Miller]

Old Regular,

I wish to support your view that the 7th Trumpet
is the Last Trump.

Ed E makes the statement above that "the last
trump is not the last trump" because it sounds
three times! Sounding the Trumpet three times
is customary ... especially when the third
time it sounds is referred to in Matt.24:31.

Ed E takes it on himself the authority to
change the meaning of "after the tribulation"
to "before the Tribulation". Here is his quote:
_______________________________________________
"In John 14:1-3 Jesus promises that He will come and get me. In places like Matthew 24:31, 2 Thess 2:1-3, Revelation 1;4, etc we see that Jesus is going to come and get me BEFORE the
Tribulation Period Judgement of the World".
________________________________________________

This kind of "twisting" of Scripture cannot be
countenanced in a serious exchange of views.
Ed misinterprets Matt.24:31 as being a THIRD
sounding of the LAST Trump following the great
tribulation.

The FIRST sound of the Last Trump is Rev.11:15.
It sounds "in the days after God's mystery was
finished". It sounds within 3 1/2 days after
the 1260 days of great tribulation are ended!

The SECOND sound of the Last Trump is I Thess.
4:16 where this "trump of God" sounds as Jesus
"brings the souls of the dead in Christ (which
includes Trib-Martyrs) with Him" after the great
tribulation ends.

The THIRD sound of the Last Trump is Matt.24:31
when Jesus "sends the angels to gather the elect
out of the four winds" immediately after He has
"gathered them from the earth" at the SECOND
sounding of the Last Trump!!

So ED E disallows the common practice of
sounding the Trumpet three times at the Feast
of Tabernacles. He ignores the fact that the
Feast of TRUMPETS includes Rosh HaShannah, the
Day of Atonment and the Feast of Tabs within
the first 15 days of the start of the Jewish New Year.

The Last Trump will sound (1) for the Coronation of Christ; (2) for His "bringing the souls of the dead with Him to meet the Elect whom He gathers from earth" to the atmosphere around the globe and (3) for "sending the angels after the great tribulation to gather the Elect from all the extremities of the heavenS" unto Himself!! Matt.24:31. Paul agrees with Jesus in 2 Thess. 2:1 that they meet Jesus at the Synagogue in
the Sky.

Only Jesus reveals the SUPPLEMENTAL role of angels to that of His own in gathering the Elect.
Ed E hasn't discovered these things as yet.
Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
You are being disingenuous and the interpretations you post reads like it came out of a horses mouth.

Spiritual interpretation do seem "strange" to the carnal mind.

A straightforward reading of Scripture will not lead to dispensationalism. Scripture talks about covenants, not dispensations. The word does not occur in the Old Testament and occurs only seven times in the New Testament. On four occasions it is translated dispensation and on three occasions it is translated stewardship.

Rapture is not in the scripture either.

You are either getting your eroneous interpretation from a study Bible like Scofield or Ryrie or from a dispensational preacher.

Also don't tell me you invented those charts you routinely post. they come straight out of Larkin or LeHaye.

My charts go back over 20 years, the hundreds/thousands of people who know me, know that, when did Lehaye/Larkin come on the scene??

Scofield I've "heard of", Ryrie is a "mystery" to me, so is "Larkin"???


"Late Great planet earth" and "The Antichrist", A.W. Pink, are the only books I "EVER" read, and I can point out some things to both authors, they didn't know.

I don't read books "ABOUT" the Bible, just the Bible, and I depend on the "SPIRIT" to teach me, that's where my charts originated.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
Me4Him: //The promise to "send Elijah" was spiritually fulfilled in "John the Baptist", but the "Literal Elijah" is coming as one of the two witnesses during the trib, //

OldRegular: //One thing about you Me4Him. You are consistent, consistently wrong. Can you quote one passage of Scripture that supports your remark about John the Baptist.

)

While Bro Be4Him's staement is NOT in the Bible;
neither is it inconsistant with the Bible.
A couple of other ways of wording what Bro Me4Him said is:

John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah.
One of the two winesses will aslo come in the spirit of Elijah.

Elijah is the type for John The Baptist
and Elijah is the type for oneof the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11.

Scripture (single prophecy) can have a "Spiritual fulfillment" and a "literal fulfillment",

The "Spiritual" is Jesus first coming, spiritual vision was required to "see/recognize" the characters/events,

The "Second coming", all the characters/events will be "Literal" or in the "Physical realm", no spiritual vision is required to "see/recognize" them.

And I might add, it's the same characters/events.

Jews interpret scripture "Literally", not spiritually, so from the following verses (and chart) you can see how Jesus's promise to be "resurrected" "in three days" (back on earth) is both "Spiritually" (72 hours) true and "literally" true (5th, 6th, 7th day).

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, (his body) and in three days I will raise it up.

Ho 6:2 After two days (5th, 6th) will he revive us: in the third day (7th) he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

The "Numbering of days" in scripture is there for a "reason", and the "spiritual interpretations" of the NT match up "perfectly" with the "literal interpretation" of the OT, when correctly understood.

P.S. Old Regular, does larkin/Lehaye have this chart??

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
Rapture is not in the scripture either.

Me4Him

You finally got something correct. The so-called pre-trib rapture is not in Scripture. It takes a big man to admit his error.

 

[OldRegular]

Me4Him

I don't know what spirit gave you the above charts but it certainly was not the Holy Spirit. Perhaps the following Scripture applies to your interpretation and that of Darby/Scofield.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
Me4Him

I don't know what spirit gave you the above charts but it certainly was not the Holy Spirit. Perhaps the following Scripture applies to your interpretation and that of Darby/Scofield.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

"IF" you're not operating on "predilection", you should able to show my errors through your "knowledge",

"IF" you can't prove them wrong, "HOW" do you "know" they are wrong???

Here's you another to "Chew on".

Mt 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

The "Darkness/Great light" was "Spiritual darkness/Light" in Jesus first coming, Agreed???

Let's compare that to his second coming.

Mr 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, (literal darkness)

Mr 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

2Th 2:8 and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (Literally, a Great light)

One "spiritual", one "Literal", and there's many more occurrances of spiritual vs. literal.

 

[OldRegular]

me4Him

Since I found out on another thread that you are apparently not a pre-trib dispensationalist [Israel is dead quote] perhaps you can tell me if the following is literal or spiritual?

John 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
me4Him

Since I found out on another thread that you are apparently not a pre-trib dispensationalist [Israel is dead quote] perhaps you can tell me if the following is literal or spiritual?

John 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

99.9% of arguments are based on one interpreting "literally" and one "Spiritually", how the two come together to form "ONE", escape most people.

God's promise to Abraham was both "Spiritual" (By Faith) and "Literal", (through the flesh) "THY SEED" is the natural seed of Abraham, the flesh,

this is why God isn't finished with the "Literal nation of Jews", but the Church becomes "JEWS" through "FAITH", circumcision by the "Spirit.

Now the "Natural born Jews" must (will) become Jews through a "Spiritual circucision" by "FAITH" in Jesus.

Just as the Jews can't "SEE" "JESUS" as being "God in the flesh",

Most Christian can't "SEE" "GOD" as being "Jesus in the flesh", at least when it comes to interpreting/understanding scripture.

God's promises to Abraham/Israel will "Literally" come to pass, Kingdom (MK) and physical survivors of the trib, but Jesus and "his disciples" are "invited" to God/Israel marriage celebration in "CANA",

but you know what, The Jews were also invited to Jesus's (Lamb's) wedding supper, Matt 22, but refused to come.

Square that away in your mind, we'll go to the next lesson.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
me4Him

Since I found out on another thread that you are apparently not a pre-trib dispensationalist [Israel is dead quote] perhaps you can tell me if the following is literal or spiritual?

John 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

99.9% of arguments are based on one interpreting "literally" and one "Spiritually", how the two come together to form "ONE", escape most people.

God's promise to Abraham was both "Spiritual" (By Faith) and "Literal", (through the flesh) "THY SEED" is the natural seed of Abraham, the flesh,

this is why God isn't finished with the "Literal nation of Jews", but the Church becomes "JEWS" through "FAITH", circumcision by the "Spirit.

Now the "Natural born Jews" must (will) become Jews through a "Spiritual circucision" by "FAITH" in Jesus.

Just as the Jews can't "SEE" "JESUS" as being "God in the flesh",

Most Christian can't "SEE" "GOD" as being "Jesus in the flesh", at least when it comes to interpreting/understanding scripture.

God's promises to Abraham/Israel will "Literally" come to pass, Kingdom (MK) and physical survivors of the trib, but Jesus and "his disciples" are "invited" to God/Israel marriage celebration in "CANA",

but you know what, The Jews were also invited to Jesus's (Lamb's) wedding supper, Matt 22, but refused to come.

Square that away in your mind, we'll go to the next lesson.

</font>[/QUOTE]Just answer the question without all the pontificating!

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by kiriath_jearim:
Regarding the various teachings of the "rapture" we have read and heard, are "believers" translated or raptured at the sound of the LAST trumpet? If so, what is the first trumpet, since the term "last" logically implies that there are PRIOR trumpets. The only place in the eschatological Scriptures where on reads of several trumpets sounding is in the Revelation.

Are you of the people Kirjathjearim's, of Judah, keepers of the Ark?

Good question. It would seem we that will be “caught up” would have to be “translated in our rapture” for the dead in Christ that arise first will evidently be in their New glorified bodies. While we Christians today that are in the Body of Christ spiritually, of course continue in these sinful bodies cannot be glorified before our time. But then to be transformed will make it possible to be with Him in Body and Spirit.

We see that Jesus was raised in His Body, but would not allow Mary Magdalene to touch Him until He had ascended to His Father. At the rapture I believe we will be “grabbed up”, not allowing any to touch us, or allowing Satan to interfere.

The "rapture" is unknown in prophecy or when the "kingdom was at hand". It is known to us today for Christ revealed it to Paul. We will not find it in Revelation for that Book is also of prophecy, of which we are not.

Christian faith, ituttut

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by OldRegular:

Originally posted by Me4Him:
[qb]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
[qb] me4Him

Since I found out on another thread that you are apparently not a pre-trib dispensationalist [Israel is dead quote] perhaps you can tell me if the following is literal or spiritual?

John 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Just answer the question without all the pontificating!

Will the "unsaved" hear the "last trump" of Jesus's "VOICE" (Holy Ghost) in the rapture,

Or only the saved???

And "IF" the unsaved don't hear at this time,..."Evidently"... they aren't resurrected at that time,

What do you think???

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:

Originally posted by Me4Him:
[qb]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
[qb] me4Him

Since I found out on another thread that you are apparently not a pre-trib dispensationalist [Israel is dead quote] perhaps you can tell me if the following is literal or spiritual?

John 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Just answer the question without all the pontificating!

Will the "unsaved" hear the "last trump" of Jesus's "VOICE" (Holy Ghost) in the rapture,

Or only the saved???

And "IF" the unsaved don't hear at this time,..."Evidently"... they aren't resurrected at that time,

What do you think???

</font>

I think the Scripture means just exactly what it says. Of course it proves that dispensationalism is a totally false doctrine but that is the way the cookie crumbles. As Ed Ed would say tee hee!

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
I think the Scripture means just exactly what it says. Of course it proves that dispensationalism is a totally false doctrine but that is the way the cookie crumbles. As Ed Ed would say tee hee [/QB]

Ec 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

There's a "TIME" for everything under the sun, and they don't all occur at the "same time".

A time for the rapture, a time for the resurrection, they are not the same event.

 

[OldRegular]

me4Him

Just answer the question. How is John 5:28, 29 to be interpreted, spiritually or literally?

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

If you can't answer it don't be ashamed to say so. There is not one dispensationalist who will answer that question.