The Law Cannot Tax a Believer with Damnation

[KenH]

"VIII. They that are under Grace revealed, are no more under the Law.

While we are out of Covenant with God, we are, in our own apprehension, under the curse for any breach of law or disobedience; but, when we are once under grace revealed, we are ever under grace, and no more under the Law. The Law can only tell a believer he sins, but cannot tax him with damnation. “We are not under the law, but under grace.” “Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? Who shall condemn? It is Christ that died.”

IX. When God is said to be in Covenant with a soul.

A Soul is sensibly in Covenant with God, when God hath come to it in the promise, and then when it feels itself under the power of the promise, it begins only to know it is in Covenant; and yet to yield obedience, as if it were but just entering into that Covenant which God hath made with it in Christ, before it could do anything; so as they that believe, do rather feel themselves in that Covenant which God hath made with them, without respect to anything in themselves either, faith or repentance, &c."

- Isaac Chauncy, in "Neonomianism Unmasked OR, A Plea for the ANCIENT GOSPEL"

The book is online at neonomianism-unmasked.pdf (supralapsarian.com)

 

[Dr. Bob]

Thankfully, the covenant God made with man depends on HIM alone, not me, or I'd have no hope. This isn't a treaty or a contract; it is a decision in the heart/will of God alone. Not left to the will of the flesh or heart of man, but 100% of God.

 

[DaveXR650]

Ken. I read part of that link. Not all of it, it's almost 500 pages! But what is going on there? The arguments are very hard to follow.

 

[KenH]

Ken. I read part of that link. Not all of it, it's almost 500 pages! But what is going on there? The arguments are very hard to follow.

Yeah, I was conversing with a friend about this book and I said that one really has to start at the beginning in order to follow all of the currents and eddies in the book.

 

[Marooncat79]

Thankfully, the covenant God made with man depends on HIM alone, not me, or I'd have no hope. This isn't a treaty or a contract; it is a decision in the heart/will of God alone. Not left to the will of the flesh or heart of man, but 100% of God.

yes sir!!

there are people on this board who will take you to task on this issue big time

 

[Marooncat79]

Thankfully, the covenant God made with man depends on HIM alone, not me, or I'd have no hope. This isn't a treaty or a contract; it is a decision in the heart/will of God alone. Not left to the will of the flesh or heart of man, but 100% of God.

@Van

van. Please expound upon

thanks

 

[Van]

@Van

van. Please expound upon

thanks

Romans 9:16

 

[Marooncat79]

Romans 9:16

You quote Romans 9:16 which says salvation is not by the will of man, yet you continue to openly affirm that salvation is by the will of man

please explain?

 

[Van]

You quote Romans 9:16 which says salvation is not by the will of man, yet you continue to openly affirm that salvation is by the will of man

please explain?

Your claim is false, as salvation depends upon God not man. What Calvinism denies is that God credits our faith as righteousness, turning a sows ear into a silk purse.

 

[Marooncat79]

But you have said it’s by the will of man

BTW. I have never said what you accuse me of

 

[KenH]

You quote Romans 9:16 which says salvation is not by the will of man, yet you continue to openly affirm that salvation is by the will of man

please explain?

Van denies the Biblical doctrine of imputation.

The issue is "perfect righteousness", not "sincere obedience". The Bible teaches that Christ's perfect righteousness is imputed to God's elect, thus they stand in perfect righteousness before God. There is no other way in which to do so.

 

[KenH]

Your claim is false, as salvation depends upon God not man. What Calvinism denies is that God credits our faith as righteousness, turning a sows ear into a silk purse.

Romans 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

From John Gill's commentary on this verse: "the meaning of which is not, that Abraham imputed righteousness to God, or celebrated his righteousness and faithfulness, as some; or that the world reckoned Abraham a righteous person, as others; but that God reckoned him righteous, or imputed it to him for righteousness: and the question is, what the it is which was counted to him for righteousness? and that this is to be understood, האמנה על, "concerning faith", as R. Solomon Jarchi says, is out of question; for this is expressly said by the apostle, Rom 4:9. The only one is, whether it means the grace of faith by which he believed; or the object of faith on which he believed, and with which his faith was conversant: not the former, for that is not righteousness, nor accounted so; but is distinguished from it, and is that by which a person receives and lays hold on righteousness; besides, whatever may be alleged in favour of the imputation of Abraham's faith to himself for righteousness, it can never be thought to be imputed to others on that account; whereas the very selfsame it is imputed to others also; see Rom 4:24; it remains then that it was the promised seed, the Messiah, and his righteousness, which Abraham, by faith, looked unto, and believed in, that was made unto him righteousness by imputation. Now since so great and good a man as Abraham was not justified by works, but by faith in the righteousness of the Messiah, it follows, that none of his sons, nor any other person whatever, ought to seek for, or expect to be justified in any other way.

- John Gill, Gill's Bible Commentary

 

[Van]

Romans 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

From John Gill's commentary on this verse: "the meaning of which is not, that Abraham imputed righteousness to God, or celebrated his righteousness and faithfulness, as some; or that the world reckoned Abraham a righteous person, as others; but that God reckoned him righteous, or imputed it to him for righteousness: and the question is, what the it is which was counted to him for righteousness? and that this is to be understood, האמנה על, "concerning faith", as R. Solomon Jarchi says, is out of question; for this is expressly said by the apostle, Rom 4:9. The only one is, whether it means the grace of faith by which he believed; or the object of faith on which he believed, and with which his faith was conversant: not the former, for that is not righteousness, nor accounted so; but is distinguished from it, and is that by which a person receives and lays hold on righteousness; besides, whatever may be alleged in favour of the imputation of Abraham's faith to himself for righteousness, it can never be thought to be imputed to others on that account; whereas the very selfsame it is imputed to others also; see Rom 4:24; it remains then that it was the promised seed, the Messiah, and his righteousness, which Abraham, by faith, looked unto, and believed in, that was made unto him righteousness by imputation. Now since so great and good a man as Abraham was not justified by works, but by faith in the righteousness of the Messiah, it follows, that none of his sons, nor any other person whatever, ought to seek for, or expect to be justified in any other way.

- John Gill, Gill's Bible Commentary

1) No one claimed Abraham imputed righteousness to God, so a bunny trail assertion.
2) Scripture says Abraham's faith was credited as righteousness, not that Abraham was made righteous.

This Commentary by Gill is Gibberish from start to finish...

 

[KenH]

1) No one claimed Abraham imputed righteousness to God, so a bunny trail assertion.
2) Scripture says Abraham's faith was credited as righteousness, not that Abraham was made righteous.

This Commentary by Gill is Gibberish from start to finish...

Do the elect stand perfectly righteous before God?

 

[Van]

Do the elect stand perfectly righteous before God?

Yet another subject change, yes those washed by the blood of Christ stand perfectly righteous before God. But Judas, elected to be the betrayer, did not undergo the washing of regeneration.

Van denies the Biblical doctrine of imputation.

The issue is "perfect righteousness", not "sincere obedience". The Bible teaches that Christ's perfect righteousness is imputed to God's elect, thus they stand in perfect righteousness before God. There is no other way in which to do so.

I believe Romans 5:19 denies the bogus doctrine of imputation.

 

[KenH]

yes those washed by the blood of Christ stand perfectly righteous before God

The only way they can do so is by the imputation of a perfect righteousness that is not their own, as man is incapable of producing a perfect righteousness. Yet you deny that people can have the perfect righteousness of Christ as you also deny that Christ's righteousness is imputed to His elect. If you are correct(which you are not, you are in error), then no human being will be saved as no one will have a perfect righteousness.

 

[Van]

The only way they can do so is by the imputation of a perfect righteousness that is not their own, as man is incapable of producing a perfect righteousness. Yet you deny that people can have the perfect righteousness of Christ as you also deny that Christ's righteousness is imputed to His elect. If you are correct(which you are not, you are in error), then no human being will be saved as no one will have a perfect righteousness.

Scripture says they were made perfect, Hebrews 12:23.

 

[KenH]

Scripture says they were made perfect, Hebrews 12:23.

Yes, by having Christ's righteousness imputed to them. The Bible clearly teaches that no man is righteous and that man can do nothing to make himself righteous, let alone get rid of his sin debt. The elect can only be saved through getting rid of their sin debt - which is imputed to Christ - and having Christ's righteousness - which is imputed to them.

 

[Van]

Yes, by having Christ's righteousness imputed to them. The Bible clearly teaches that no man is righteous and that man can do nothing to make himself righteous, let alone get rid of his sin debt. The elect can only be saved through getting rid of their sin debt - which is imputed to Christ - and having Christ's righteousness - which is imputed to them.

Please stop rewriting scripture. God makes people righteous through the washing of regeneration, being made alive together with Christ.

 

[KenH]

Please stop rewriting scripture. God makes people righteous through the washing of regeneration, being made alive together with Christ.

God makes people righteous by imputing Christ's righteousness to them.