• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Liberal Lie - The Conservative Truth

Freedom

New Member
Reagan's Record versus Bill Clinton's Record

Two things that clearly did not cause it are smaller government and lower taxes, because this legendary Reagan revolution barely happened. Federal government spending was a quarter higher in real terms when Reagan left office than when he entered. As a share of GDP, the federal government shrank from 22.2 percent to 21.2 percent—a whopping one percentage point. The federal civilian work force increased from 2.8 million to 3 million. (Yes, it increased even if you exclude Defense Department civilians. And, no, assuming a year or two of lag time for a president's policies to take effect doesn't materially change any of these results.)

Under eight years of Big Government Bill Clinton, to choose another president at random, the federal civilian work force went down from 2.9 million to 2.68 million. Federal spending grew by 11 percent in real terms—less than half as much as under Reagan. As a share of GDP, federal spending shrank from 21.5 percent to 18.3 percent—more than double Reagan's reduction, ending up with a federal government share of the economy about a tenth smaller than Reagan left behind.

And taxes? Federal tax collections rose about a fifth in real terms under Reagan. As a share of GDP, they declined from 19.6 percent to 18.3 percent. After Clinton, they are up to 20 percent. It's hard to think of variations in this narrow range as revolutionary one way or the other. For most working Americans, the share of income going to taxes (including FICA) went up even under Reagan.

Source for this quote. Actually, I agree with the request to provide sources for all quotes. Sorry I missed this one.

Reagan's Record
Sorry to spoil the birthday party, but …By Michael Kinsley
Posted Friday, Feb. 9, 2001, at 3:00 AM ET
http://www.slate.com/id/100474/


Ronald Reagan's 90th birthday has set off a national debate about the Reagan presidency. Was it as wonderful as we thought at the time? Or, on the other hand, was it even more wonderful? Happy birthday to Mr. Reagan, a genial, well-meaning, patriotic man, who never (we presume) had oral sex near the Oval Office. A great leader, too, in the general view—and on the question of leadership, the general view is, by definition, hard to dispute. On most other subjects, though, objective fact may be worth consulting as well. On that basis, Reagan's achievements as president appear in hindsight to be just about exactly as wonderful as I thought at the time. Not very.
 

Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
See how easy that is ?

Now all you have to do is admit that this isn't your first round here, that you have posted previously, under two different monikers.

I will admit you are better preparing yourself, this time around.
 

Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
So the misjudgment/lie is OK with you ? Man, you hold the dems to some pretty low standards. How about some consistency ? You either support imperialism or you don't. Which is it ?
 

Robert Snow

New Member
So the misjudgment/lie is OK with you ? Man, you hold the dems to some pretty low standards. How about some consistency ? You either support imperialism or you don't. Which is it ?

First, I have not seen where President Clinton "promised" to stay in Bosnia for only twelve months; politicians usually leave themselves a way out. Also, if the troops should not have been used in Bosnia, then why didn't President Bush withdraw the troops and stop the air strikes started under Clinton?
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
President Reagan accomplished something that is anathema to most if not all democrat/liberal/leftists. He defeated the Soviet Union without firing a shot. Many in the left had for years advocated that we cave to the Soviet Union. They still would given the opportunity.

Reagan proposed a missile defense system which was instrumental in the defeat of the Soviets. For this he was criticized roundly and painted as a fool by the democrat/liberal/left. His proposed missile defense system was tagged as "Star Wars". But now we have an operational system despite the ignorance of those on the left.

Because Reagan defeated the Soviet Union he will never be forgiven, but always hated and vilified, by the "pinkos" on this Forum and in the democrat party.
 

Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
First, I have not seen where President Clinton "promised" to stay in Bosnia for only twelve months; politicians usually leave themselves a way out. Also, if the troops should not have been used in Bosnia, then why didn't President Bush withdraw the troops and stop the air strikes started under Clinton?

My guess is because they are two sides of the same coin.
 

Palatka51

New Member
First, I have not seen where President Clinton "promised" to stay in Bosnia for only twelve months; politicians usually leave themselves a way out. Also, if the troops should not have been used in Bosnia, then why didn't President Bush withdraw the troops and stop the air strikes started under Clinton?

He promised that we would be out of Kosovo by Christmas of that year.

House Republican Policy Committee
Policy Perspective Christopher Cox, Chairman


CLINTON'S BROKEN PROMISE SIGNALS FAILURE IN BOSNIA
August 7, 1996

Introduction: Delayed Pullout

Last November, as he prepared to order American troops to the former Yugoslavia, President Clinton promised in writing to the Speaker of the House what the nation's top soldier, Gen. John Shalikashvili, had told Congress in testimony a month before: that "we have set one year as a deadline for withdrawal of these forces from Bosnia-Herzegovina."

In testimony before the House International Relations Committee on November 30, 1995, Secretary of Defense William Perry confirmed the one-year duration of the mission. He said:

"[W]e have based our planning and our scheduling of this force on it being there for 1 year ... building down the force for withdrawal at the end of about 1 year."

Not all were so sanguine that the Bosnia mission's goals, ill-defined as they were, could be accomplished within the time-frame the Administration promised. During an October 18, 1995 hearing, Tom Lantos, a senior Democrat on the House International Relations Committee, was justified in saying to Secretary Perry,

"I think I understand why the administration facing a hostile Congress is promising a 1-year deadline, but I think it is a dangerous course of action because I think there is a very strong possibility that at the end of the year we will find it necessary to extend the mission. I think it would be more honest to say so at the outset."

In March 1996, several months into the deployment, the administration was still publicly committed to withdrawing the troops after a year. Robert Hunter, the President's Ambassador to NATO, stated flatly, "We, as NATO, took a very careful decision about how long we were prepared to stay. We agreed on a year. We went in together, and we're going to leave together." And Richard Holbrooke, until recently Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs, said, "The president has given a very clear commitment on the 12 months. That is our policy. It will remain our policy."

Not for long. By June 7, 1996, the NATO regional commander, Adm. Leighton Smith, was saying that "there will be forces here beyond a year." Defense Secretary William Perry acknowledged that the Dayton Accords, the basis for the U.S. deployment, call for the mission to end in December, but said that he would recommend keeping U.S. troops in Bosnia next year if NATO thinks "some further action is needed" in the region.

From his speech;

President Milosevic should make no mistake: The United States takes care of its own. And President Milosevic should make no mistake: We will hold him and his Government responsible for their safety and for their well-being.

But I ask you also to resolve that we will continue to carry out our mission with determination and resolve. . . .

Altogether now more than half a million Kosovars have been pushed from their homes since the conflict began. They are arriving at the borders of the country shaken by what they have seen and been through. . . .

Had we not acted, the Serbian offensive would have been carried out with impunity. We are determined that it will carry a very high price, indeed. We also act to prevent a wider war. If you saw my address to the country the other night and the maps that I showed, you know that Kosovo is a very small place. But it sits right at the dividing line of Europe, Asia and the Middle East, the dividing line between Islam and Christianity, close to our Turkish and Greek allies to the south, our new allies Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic to the north, surrounded by small and struggling democracies that easily could be overwhelmed by the flood of refugees Mr. Milosevic is creating.

Already Macedonia is so threatened. Already Serbian forces have made forays into Albania, which borders Kosovo. If we were to do nothing, eventually our allies and then the United States would be drawn into a larger conflict, at far-greater risks to our people and far-greater costs.

Now, we can't respond to every tragedy in every corner of the world, but just because we can't do everything for everyone doesn't mean that, for the sake of consistency, we should do nothing for no one.
 

Freedom

New Member
See how easy that is ?

Now all you have to do is admit that this isn't your first round here, that you have posted previously, under two different monikers.

I will admit you are better preparing yourself, this time around.
Once again, I have no idea what you're talking about. Who was this other poster you're confusing me with? I'm not going to waste any more time on this foolishness and will ignore any more grilling along these lines.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

poncho

Well-Known Member
President Reagan accomplished something that is anathema to most if not all democrat/liberal/leftists. He defeated the Soviet Union without firing a shot. Many in the left had for years advocated that we cave to the Soviet Union. They still would given the opportunity.

Reagan proposed a missile defense system which was instrumental in the defeat of the Soviets. For this he was criticized roundly and painted as a fool by the democrat/liberal/left. His proposed missile defense system was tagged as "Star Wars". But now we have an operational system despite the ignorance of those on the left.

Because Reagan defeated the Soviet Union he will never be forgiven, but always hated and vilified, by the "pinkos" on this Forum and in the democrat party.

I'm going to let you on something OR and I don't want you to be upset or anything so I'm going to tell you up front I was/am a Ronald Reagan fan. But the whole truth about the fall of the U.S.S.R is that it would have fallen even if Reagan done nothing and you already know why.

Because socialism doesn't work!

The Soviet Union was rotten from within and was pretty much an empty shell by the time Reagan took office. He knew that because all the intell boys told him that.

All he did was hurry the fall along by getting the Soviets into an arms race they couldn't afford. Was it a good thing? Maybe, maybe not. Does he deserve credit? Yes. Does he deserve all the credit? no. So, in other words you are in fact perpetuating a half truth about Ronald Reagan.

Are we still buddies?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
I'm going to let you on something OR and I don't want you to be upset or anything so I'm going to tell you up front I was/am a Ronald Reagan fan. But the whole truth about the fall of the U.S.S.R is that it would have fallen even if Reagan done nothing and you already know why.

Because socialism doesn't work!

The Soviet Union was rotten from within and was pretty much an empty shell by the time Reagan took office. He knew that because all the intell boys told him that.

All he did was hurry the fall along by getting the Soviets into an arms race they couldn't afford. Was it a good thing? Maybe, maybe not. Does he deserve credit? Yes. Does he deserve all the credit? no. So, in other words you are in fact perpetuating a half truth about Ronald Reagan.

Are we still buddies?

Still Buddies! Just ask yourself the question what would have happened if George McGovern had been elected president.
 

Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
Once again, I have no idea what you're talking about. Who was this other poster you're confusing me with? I'm not going to waste any more time on this foolishness and will ignore any more grilling along these lines.

It's not Christ-like to tell fibs. I knew who you were in like 5 posts. I'm not "confusing" you with anyone. I'm willing to bet a hundred push-ups.
 

daybreak

New Member
Reagan always could deliver one-liners. After all, he was a (B grade) actor.

SayItLikeObama_Teleprompter.jpg
 

Freedom

New Member
Another point is the continuation of Bush's failed mideast policies by the current prez. Seems like preparing for war in Pakistan, Somalia, Darfur, & North Korea indicate a lack of ability to learn from mistakes. I guess it's OK, because those wars will also be blamed on Bush, right ?

Are you advocating an immediate withdrawal from Bush's wars of aggression?
 

Freedom

New Member
Baloney. You copied & pasted his work without quotes. Show me one other poster who does it. You still haven't even admitted you did it. That's being very dishonest, on two counts, on this very thread. Your credibility is zero.

Just babbling as usual.......
 

Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
Are you advocating an immediate withdrawal from Bush's wars of aggression?

You know my position on this, already. I know your position, as well, that Obama's bombings are OK, but Bush is a murderer. You haven't changed.
 

Freedom

New Member
With 60 posts it would be difficult to determine what "as usual"is with posters on this board. And such rhetoric is quite familiar Just Christian.

Ever read the archives? It's interesting. Have a blessed day.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top