The Life of Faith

[rbell]

Why does the Bible teach prosperty and health? Is it God's will to heal our bodies?

I believe your church is dead. Word of Faith is the fastest growing movement in Christianity. Just trying to help you to see who you are in Christ. :laugh:

The Bible doesn't teach prosperity and health. You misuse the scriptures.

Congrats on turning God into Santa Claus. He must be proud.

Word of faith is a toxic belief system. And if "fastest growing" is your criteria for blessed, become a Muslim.

 

[Tom Butler]

The only time Jesus prayed if it be thy will was at the garden. For example, if we pray for healing for our bodies, it is unscriptural to put an if in front of the prayer. We don't come to the throne of grace like wimpering little souls. We should come boldly. Heb. 4:16. We should be saying things like Your word says By your stripes, ye WERE healed. Our healing was purchased over 2 thousand years ago. And no. The word was not talking about spiritual healing. :wavey:

I'd like to invite everyone's attention to Matthew 8, which recounts several instances where Jesus healed people--a leper, the centurion's servant, Peter's mother-in-law.

V. 17 When the even was come, they brought unto him many who were possessed by devils; and he cast out the spirits with his word, and he healed all that were sick.

Let's set the scene. It is in Capernaum (v.5) and in the evening (v. 17)

V. 18 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses.

Matthew, led by the Holy Spirit, applies Isaiah 53:4 to the events in Capernaum, in the evening.

The fulfillment of Isaiah 53:4 was during Jesus life, not his death. Isaiah 53:4 was fulfilled before Jesus died on the cross.

There is no question that Isaiah 53 points to the crucifixion and all that is implied there. But this one verse (v 4) is directly referenced to the events in Matthew 8.

 

[saturneptune]

Why does the Bible teach prosperty and health? Is it God's will to heal our bodies? Are we to live in poverty or not? Is there a difference between persecution and suffering? What are the gifts of the Spirit? Are we to pray in tongues? You see, you take pages out of the Bible and don't pay attention to the fulll full Gospel. This is why you end up a wrethed sinner. You know, I am more than a conquerer in Christ. I am the head and not the tail. I've been made holy, priestly, kingly, and can go before the throne of Grace, and demand my rights as a Christian. Finally, I proclaim I am a new creature in Christ Jesus.

I believe your church is dead. Word of Faith is the fastest growing movement in Christianity. Just trying to help you to see who you are in Christ. :laugh:

Would you be kind enough to post your high school English grades?

 

[webdog]

I thought heresy was not allowed on the BB? If ME'ers were banned, WoF'ers should follow suit.

 

[Tom Butler]

The W of F heresy also makes God weak and also equal with Satan.

Here's how: If we speak with our mouths positive things, such as wealth and healing, then God can operate and give us those things we confess. But not unless or until we do.

If we speak negative things, then Satan operates and brings negative things into our lives. He, like God, is waiting on us to speak.

W of F teaches that you will have what you say. If you don't say it, you don't get it.

It places both God and Satan under our command.

We can order God around, in other words. Praying is not necessary. Asking God for blessings is not necessary. All that's required is that we simply tell God what we want. We are not to say "if God wills", because it's already God's will for us to be rich and healthy We are to simply place our order.

Even God must have faith. When he created the heavens and the earth, he spoke "faith-filled words." What he spoke came into existence because he had faith that it would. We have the same privilege, since we are gods ourselves, because we are made in his image.

If you have enough faith, you can also begin to bark like a dog or laugh uncontrollably, a sign of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

See where all this leads?

 

[golfjack]

reply

Tom, [edited] it isn't worth my time to respond to you. [edited]

Peace, Golfjack

It is these type of comments/personal attacks that will provide you a quick exodus out of the BB.

Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Be careful with what you post, and how you post it.

 

[Jim1999]

He didn't need schooling. He has the word of faith.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Tom Butler]

Tom, it isn't worth my time to respond to you.

Peace, Golfjack

Golfjack, I invite you to respond to my post (#25). It may not be worth your time but I think we'll all benefit from your views. I'll take the time to read them if you'll take the time to post them.

 

[annsni]

post removed upon request of poster

 

[Tom Butler]

I'm sure that golfjack believes I have mischaracterized the WF movement. Since not all WF leaders teach exactly the same thing, it is possible does he not embrace everything they teach.

I am going to cite some statements by WF preachers, and let them characterize the doctrines of their own movement.

Kenneth Copeland: God operates by spiritual law and is obliged to obey the faith-filled commands and desires of believers. (Laws of Prosperity, pp. 60-62)

Copeland again: "As a believer, you have a right to make commands in the name of Jesus. Each time you stand on the Word, you are commanding God to a certain extent, because it is His Word" (Our Covenant with God, p. 32)

Robert Tilton: "We make our own promises to do our part, then we can tell God, on the authority of His word, what we would like Him to do. That's right, you can actually tell God what you would like His part in the Covenant to be" (God's Miracle Plan for Man, p. 36)

Kenneth Hagin "Man...was created on terms of equality with God, and he could stand in God's presence without any consciousness of inferiority.... He made us the same class of being that He is Himself.... He lived on terms equal with God.... The believer is called Christ, that's who we are; we're Christ" (Zoe: The God Kind of Life, pp. 35-36, 41

Morris Cerillo "The whole purpose of God was to reproduce Himself. ...you're not looking at Morris Cerillo, you're looking at God, you're looking at Jesus" (The End Time Manifestation of the Sons of God, Audio Tape 1, Sides 1 &;2).

Paul Yonggi Cho: "You create the presence of Jesus with your mouth...he is bound by your lips and your words. Remember that Christ is depending on your spoken word to release his presence" (The Fourth Dimention, Vol.1 p. 83)

Copeland again: "Faith is power force. It is a tangible force. It is a conductive force." (Force of Faith p. 13)
"Words activate the force. The force is activated by words. Faith-filled words put the law of the Spirit of life into operation (p. 18)

I'll stop here, because this is getting a little long. We can deal with other aspects of WF in later posts.

 

[annsni]

Tom - Those are some scary words!! Yikes!!

 

[Tom Butler]

Here's an exerpt from an article from Biblical Discernment Ministries

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/holylaugh.htm

Many churches are reporting spontaneous, uncontrollable laughter erupting from their congregations, even during times of solemn ceremony or messages from the pulpit. Some report uncontrollable weeping, falling to the floor in ecstatic trances, and animal noises such as barking like dogs and roaring like lions. Some stagger and reel like drunken people, unable to walk a straight line. For simplicity's sake, all these have come to be called "holy laughter," since laughter is the preeminent phenomenon displayed. In simple terms, it is physical manifestations in the form of virtually any expression attributed to absolute control by the Holy Spirit.

Proponents of these phenomena say they are evidence of a fresh outpouring of the Holy Spirit in response to the people's desire to see a new sign from God -- the latest in manifestations of Holy Ghost power, such as took place at Azusa Street in Los Angeles at the turn of the century. They point to the Welsh Revival, the Cane Ridge Revival in Bourbon County, Kentucky in 1801, and to [Arminian] preachers like Charles Finney, to validate today's holy laughter experience.

Opponents say it is either a manifestation of the flesh, at best, or of demonic spirits at worst. Those who believe it is of God point to changed lives, deeper commitment to faith in Jesus, huge responses to the salvation message, a renewed strength and purpose for ministry, and all sorts of positive results. On the other hand, there are also reports of demonic oppression, suicidal feelings, and loss of faith after the holy laughter experience.

I've seen this on TBN a couple of times. Each time, Rodney Howard-Brown was preaching. Or trying to amid all the noise. On the front row was Richard Roberts, unable to stop laughing.

Other WF leaders who have endorsed the experience are Kenneth Copeland, Marilyn Hickey and Pat Robertson, Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts have participated.

To golfjack: I'm curious if you endorse holy laughter. When you reply to my recent posts, let us know what you think about it.

Of course, it's not necessary to agree with all those WF leaders. But it is necessary to appeal to scripture for belief and practice, not just the experience.

 

[DHK]

It is these type of comments/personal attacks that will provide you a quick exodus out of the BB.

Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Be careful with what you post, and how you post it.

Making sure that you can see this edited post. Your original post was post #26.
DHK

 

[Tom Butler]

Here are some more doctrines of the WF movement, which I also call the PC (Positive Confession) movement.

1. Jesus Christ died spiritually, and had to be reborn (born againZ) spiritually because he had become a lost sinner. E. W. Kenyon taught that he took on Satan's nature, and Satan took control of Jesus and took him to Hell. Kenyon held that Jesus' physical death on the cross was not sufficient to atone for sin. Satan kept Jesus in hell for three days, after which God said "enough" and took him out. Here's a direct quote from Kenyon

He had suffered Hell's agonies for three days and three nights. The Supreme Court of the Universe cried, "Enough." He had paid the penalty and met the claims of Justice. Satan saw him justified. God made Him alive in Spirit right there in the presence of the cohorts of Hades. Jesus was made a new creation. Jesus was born into the New Covenant in Hades."

From What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, seventh edition, p. 89

2. Benny Hinn says God has a body. He also said that The Father is a triune being, the Son is a triune being, and the Holy Spirit is a triune being--nine in all. both these statements were made with to Paul Crouch on TBN.

3. Fred Price: True Christians do not get sick

4. Kenneth Copeland: God is 6 feet tall and came from another planet.

5. Copeland It was originally intended for women to give birth out of their sides.

Well, the last two aren't exactly widely held PC doctrines, just individual revelations or visions.


Had enough?




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