The LORD: "HATES all workers of iniquity"??

[Paul from Antioch]

When I do my daily Bible/Devotions I USUALLY go by what is in Tyndale's "One Year Study Bible." It normally quotes 2 Chs fm the OT + 1 Ch fm the NT+ a Psalm (or portion of 1 (cf. Psalm 119) + a reading in Proverbs. .... But every once in a while I "depart from (or include along w/the above). My "birth month" is May...the 5th month of the yr....So, why not go to Psalm 5.....In fact, why not go to v. 5.... Now... I've "always" been told: God "LOVES the sinner, but He HATES the works ("Deeds") of the sinner. But Ps 5, vs 5..says (in the last part of Ps 5, verse 5): "...Thou HATETH all WORKERS of iniquity!" WOW!!! I guess I was WRONG (Won't be the 1st time!!) Yes, that's what Ps 5, vs 5 says!! .... According 2 that passage GOD HATES ME & YOU 2..."We've ALL sinned & come short of God's glory!" This throws me 4 a "loop"!! Were "they" WRONG in the above statement?? PLEASE "Straighten Me out on "this"!! I'm no OT (or even NT!) "Scholar")....Please help me 2 understand whay the "Infallible Word f God" is trying 2 tell me!! PLEASE.....

 

[JonC]

Yes, God loves the sinner (He loved us by sending His Son, for while we were sinners Christ died for us).

This love is magnified that He gave His life not for the righteousness but for the sinner. And there is no greater love.

And yes, God hates sin.

 

[CJP69]

Love and hate are not mutually exclusive concepts.

Do you suppose that Jacob despised Leah?

Genesis 29:31 And when the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.​

Do you suppose the Jesus was actually teaching that we are to hate our entire immediate family?

Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
​

Of course not! Jacob loved both of his wives and Jesus is the God who made "Honor thy Father and Mother" one of the Ten Commandments!

It's a figure of speech in most cases. It simply means that you prefer one over the other. We are to prefer Christ over our own family and Rachel was Jacob's favorite wife. That's all it means.

Now, that does not mean that God does not actually hate the wicked. He definitely does. And we are to do the same!

Psalms 139:21 Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred;
I count them my enemies.​

That, however, does not mean that He doesn't also love them in the sense that He acknowledges their value as members of the race that He created in His image and in the sense that they can repent and that He very much desires for them to do so and would respond to that repentance with forgiveness and joy.

Ezekiel 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”
​

And it's a good thing too for we are all workers of iniquity!

 

[37818]

When I do my daily Bible/Devotions I USUALLY go by what is in Tyndale's "One Year Study Bible." It normally quotes 2 Chs fm the OT + 1 Ch fm the NT+ a Psalm (or portion of 1 (cf. Psalm 119) + a reading in Proverbs. .... But every once in a while I "depart from (or include along w/the above). My "birth month" is May...the 5th month of the yr....So, why not go to Psalm 5.....In fact, why not go to v. 5.... Now... I've "always" been told: God "LOVES the sinner, but He HATES the works ("Deeds") of the sinner. But Ps 5, vs 5..says (in the last part of Ps 5, verse 5): "...Thou HATETH all WORKERS of iniquity!" WOW!!! I guess I was WRONG (Won't be the 1st time!!) Yes, that's what Ps 5, vs 5 says!! .... According 2 that passage GOD HATES ME & YOU 2..."We've ALL sinned & come short of God's glory!" This throws me 4 a "loop"!! Were "they" WRONG in the above statement?? PLEASE "Straighten Me out on "this"!! I'm no OT (or even NT!) "Scholar")....Please help me 2 understand whay the "Infallible Word f God" is trying 2 tell me!! PLEASE.....

You accidentally opened a strike out Bracket S Bracket without a closing Bracket Slash S Bracket. Strike out

 

[37818]

Psalms 5:5, . . . thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

 

[kyredneck]

Psalms 5:5, . . . thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

. . . thou hatest all practitioners of iniquity.

 

[Scarlett O.]

You accidentally opened a strike out Bracket S Bracket without a closing Bracket Slash S Bracket. Strike out

I fixed it.

 

[Paul from Antioch]

Love and hate are not mutually exclusive concepts.

Do you suppose that Jacob despised Leah?

Genesis 29:31 And when the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.​

Do you suppose the Jesus was actually teaching that we are to hate our entire immediate family?

Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
​

Of course not! Jacob loved both of his wives and Jesus is the God who made "Honor thy Father and Mother" one of the Ten Commandments!

It's a figure of speech in most cases. It simply means that you prefer one over the other. We are to prefer Christ over our own family and Rachel was Jacob's favorite wife. That's all it means.

Now, that does not mean that God does not actually hate the wicked. He definitely does. And we are to do the same!

Psalms 139:21 Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred;
I count them my enemies.​

That, however, does not mean that He doesn't also love them in the sense that He acknowledges their value as members of the race that He created in His image and in the sense that they can repent and that He very much desires for them to do so and would respond to that repentance with forgiveness and joy.

Ezekiel 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”
​

And it's a good thing too for we are all workers of iniquity!

 

[Paul from Antioch]

Many tnx 4 Ur input!! .... U sea, I 2 do believe that God LOVES people (cf. John 3:16 et al), but doesn't LOVE sum of the "Things" we sometimes dew.. We won't B "Perfect" till we "See HIM face 2 face & tell "The Story..'SAVED BY GRACE!" ....

I fixed it.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

When you were a child, perhaps you played "join the dots" and made a picture. Well here is a Bible version: follow the dots and see if you come up with a picture.

Ephesians 2:2. 'We ...... were by nature children of wrath just as the others.' Who are 'the others'? Surely the rest of mankind, those who have not repented and trusted in Christ, those outside the Church. We were just like them.

Titus 3:3. 'For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another........'

Psalms 7:11. 'God is a just Judge, and God is angry with sinners every day.' Who are these sinners? They are all of mankind, for 'There is none righteous, no, not one' (Romans 3:10).
But:
Habakkuk 3:2. O LORD, I have heard Your speech and was afraid. O LORD, revive Your work in the midst of the years! In the midst of the years make it known; in wrath, remember mercy.' When was 'the midst of the Years'? Romans 5:6 (NKJV margin). 'For when we were without strength, at the right time, Christ died for the ungodly'

Isaiah 12:1. ' And in that day you will say, "O LORD, I will praise You; though You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away and You comfort me."' What 'day' is that? The day of The Lord Jesus Christ (Isaiah 11:1, 10).

John 6:39. "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me, I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day."

Titus 3:4-6. '......But when the kindness and the love of God our Saviour towards man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour.'

Romans 8:1. 'There is now therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.'

Revelation 7:9-10. 'After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues, standing before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb."'

 

[Paul from Antioch]

The reason(s) Y I posted the O P was (As y'all brought out!!) was to C how GOD can (& does!) love Us (We're ALL "totally D praved"!!....OTOH, did God/does HE "approve" of people who are in "Peace" churches....who tell us that ALL WARs R WRONG?? B4 Jesus saved me (BTW 'twas on Sat. April 23,1966!!), my family attended a "PEACE" church (e.g. U've committed the UN-PARDONABLE sin if U joined the military!) I guess guys like "Only a boy named David.." was DOOMED 2 that 4-letter word!! OTOH, I don't see any condemnation fm in the NT re being in the military (e.g. Paul's telling us 2 put on the WHOLE armor!)...Back "in the day," we had the draft (i.e., the "Selective Service"!). Many young people chose 2 flee 2 Canada to evade it (i.e. ....'NAM wuz a BIG "thing" back then!)...When I reached 18, I 2
evaded the draft: On 21 Sept 1964 I enlisted in the USAF! ....I'm NOT condemning any 1 who did not serve! All of us have different "Callings." .....Getting back to my orginal posting....I "was told 2 that God loves the sinner, but DOES NOT love what he/she may do in this life"
.....BUT Ps 5 v 5 seems 2 imply the opposite??!!??.....I'm no Hebrew (or Gk) scholar... Maybe that statement in Ps 5 v 5 was DAVID's concept.....He was KING of OT Israel @ the time (?)....Just like what "they" say re: Other Psalms that call on GOD 2 rain judgment(s) on Israel's enemies (just like 2 day!!)... ...Any way: "That's my story & I'm stikkin' w/ it!!" (Luv y'all BB'ers....!

You accidentally opened a strike out Bracket S Bracket without a closing Bracket Slash S Bracket. Strike out

 

[Paul from Antioch]

The reason(s) Y I posted the O P was (As y'all brought out!!) was to C how GOD can (& does!) love Us (We're ALL "totally D praved"!!....OTOH, did God/does HE "approve" of people who are in "Peace" churches....who tell us that ALL WARs R WRONG?? B4 Jesus saved me (BTW 'twas on Sat. April 23,1966!!), my family attended a "PEACE" church (e.g. U've committed the UN-PARDONABLE sin if U joined the military!) I guess guys like "Only a boy named David.." was DOOMED 2 that 4-letter word!! OTOH, I don't see any condemnation fm in the NT re being in the military (e.g. Paul's telling us 2 put on the WHOLE armor!)...Back "in the day," we had the draft (i.e., the "Selective Service"!). Many young people chose 2 flee 2 Canada to evade it (i.e. ....'NAM wuz a BIG "thing" back then!)...When I reached 18, I 2
evaded the draft: On 21 Sept 1964 I enlisted in the USAF! ....I'm NOT condemning any 1 who did not serve! All of us have different "Callings." .....Getting back to my orginal posting....I "was told 2 that God loves the sinner, but DOES NOT love what he/she may do in this life"
.....BUT Ps 5 v 5 seems 2 imply the opposite??!!??.....I'm no Hebrew (or Gk) scholar... Maybe that statement in Ps 5 v 5 was DAVID's concept.....He was KING of OT Israel @ the time (?)....Just like what "they" say re: Other Psalms that call on GOD 2 rain judgment(s) on Israel's enemies (just like 2 day!!)... ...Any way: "That's my story & I'm stikkin' w/ it!!" (Luv y'all BB'ers....!

 

[Dave G]

PLEASE "Straighten Me out on "this"!! I'm no OT (or even NT!) "Scholar")....Please help me 2 understand whay the "Infallible Word f God" is trying 2 tell me!! PLEASE.....

Paul, instead of asking people to help you resolve this, why not ask the Lord to help you?
After all, He is our Teacher ( 1 John 2:20-27 ).

Study to show yourself approved...and so that you may rightly divide the word of truth ( 2 Timothy 2:15 ), my friend.

 

[CJP69]

Paul, instead of asking people to help you resolve this, why not ask the Lord to help you?
After all, He is our Teacher ( 1 John 2:20-27 ).

Study to show yourself approved...and so that you may rightly divide the word of truth ( 2 Timothy 2:15 ), my friend.

The Lord helped him by having me respond to his question!

 

[JonC]

We also have to remember that love in the OP passage is an action (like in John 3:16).

It is easy to mix it up with our cultures idea of love (and emotion, love at first site, etc).

How does God love us? By sending His Son.

 

[David Lamb]

How does God love us? By sending His Son.

Yes, I remember reading that the word translated "so" in "God so loved the world" answers the question "how?" not "how much?" In other words, "so" in the sense of "thus", "in this way".

 

[CJP69]

How does God love us? By sending His Son.

More specifically...

By becoming a man and dying for us and then rising from the dead.

"Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen." - Jesus​

So much for God being immutable!

 

[JonC]

More specifically...

By becoming a man and dying for us and then rising from the dead.

"Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen." - Jesus​

So much for God being immutable!

Yes.....but this does not actually change immutability. Instead it proves the attribute.

 

[CJP69]

Yes.....but this does not actually change immutability. Instead it proves the attribute.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Why is it that I can't get anyone to make an actual argument?

Maybe this will kick start things....

Socrates: "Then it must also be the case, Adeimantus, that if something is in the best possible condition, it cannot undergo any change at all, either for the better or for the worse."

Adeimantus: "Of course not."

Socrates: "For in either case, the change would be toward something less perfect, or it would be making it worse, and that cannot be true of something in its best state. So it follows that the gods, since they are perfect, do not change."

Adeimantus: "It certainly does."
​

That passage in Plato's Republic is THE source of the doctrine of immutability. It was Christianized by Augustine of Hippo. There are a great many passages from Augustine that I could quote but here's just a sample....

“And I was looking for the nature of the Good, which is that which is entirely immutable. And I was considering that the nature of God is good, for I saw that nothing can be better than God, and I was seeking the nature of God with the whole of my heart. For I was not so mad as to suppose that you, O Lord, could change for the worse, or could be diminished in any way. I knew that the nature of Your truth was unchangeable. And I knew that You were the same, even while I was in a state of confusion. I was in a great storm of doubt, but I was able to see that you are the foundation of all things and that in you there is no variation. The things that are perishable and can change are indeed far inferior to You, who are eternally true, immutable, and perfect. You, O Lord, are my God, and I shall not waver in my faith that You are unchangeable. - Confessions, Book VII, Chapter 10

“For it was clear and certain to me that what is subject to change must be inferior to that which cannot change; and so I knew that You must be unchangeable, since if any mind could conceive something better than You, the creature would surpass the Creator. ... I then perceived that the things which are perishable have their being through Him who is unchangeable; and that in Him there is no 'was' or 'will be,' but only 'is,' because He is eternal. You, O Lord, have made clear to me with great certitude that what is always true is absolutely unchangeable. For it is now as certain to me that You are, as it is certain that there is a difference between numbers being even and odd.” - Confessions, Book VII, Chapter 15
​

Martin Luther who kicked off the Reformation was an Augustinian monk and while he separated himself from Roman heresies that had crept their way into the church, he very much did not separate himself from the Greek heresies that had done the same. Calvin then canonized the reformation doctrines when he wrote "Institutes" and formed what we call "Calvinism", which is just a reformed version of Augustinian doctrine.

Biblically, however, we see prophesies that did not come to pass, we see God repenting of disasters that He said He would perform, we see Him changing His mind and either not destroying Israel or not blessing them to the extent that He had promised, we see things happen that God Himself says that never entered His mind, we see God watching "to see" what would happen, we see God taking steps to prevent potential problems, etc, etc, etc.

 

[JonC]

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Why is it that I can't get anyone to make an actual argument?

I will.

God is immutable.

This does not mean He cannot change in any way. Instead it refers to God's nature. Scripture, when speaking of God as immutable, does so in this context.

The only way to prove Biblical divine immunity false is to prove that God has or will in the future become unrighteous, unholy, or evil.